Talk:Robert Michael Snyder

Notable Individual

CSD not the appropriate tag. This is a article with sources and is clearly notable. All this has to do is claim notability. With respect if the nominater feels this strongly please nominated for AFD. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 06:22, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I will consider it. But before that I'd rather you explain to me why the article is the way it is. We don't need to go into AfD-drama. What I see right now is... quite a jumpy mix. One sentence chess-player, one sentence, writer and two about sex-offender. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 06:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Well to be honest there is plenty of blurbs talking about his programs and his crimes but not a lot about him. He is notable, consider Chess for Juniors [[1]]. That shows how he passes as WP:Author being convicted of a child molester made news. Consider the fact he's been covered in California Press, Colorado Press, and featured on Americas Most Wanted. In honesty the question is how does he fail the notability guidelines? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 06:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I've seen your name around before (and that's also what had me hesitating) so I'll trust you'll take care of it. The initial tone of the stub sounded like someone who held a grudge was out to post something here... y'know what I mean? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 06:38, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I hear you. It's a touchy one. If you think it violates WP:COATRACK by all means edit away. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 06:40, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

His "Chess for Juniors" was widely regarded as the best/most authoritative book of its kind for many years. Even without the criminal notoriety he'd be notable as an author. Dan Heisman and Bruce Pandolfini would be comparable as people notable as chess authors/instructors but not as players and they both have articles. He also has an opening named after him (likely because he's the author of the only book dedicated to it), an unusual variation in the Sicilian, 1. e4 c5 2. b3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.8.126.247 (talk) 00:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

read sources before removing.

Just in one source I can validate what SyG removed. please READ them next time...."As a teen, Snyder won the California State High School Chess Championship and had the highest score on the U.S. Correspondence Olympic Chess Team. He won two international tournaments and became a chess master in 1973, ranking in the top onefourth of 1 percent of all rated chess players in the country. " This is source number 4 I believe . Dear lord how much more clear can that be? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 18:58, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

There is no showing that the author, Carol McGraw, knows anything about chess. She was probably just parroting what Snyder had told her. Snyder is internationally known as a pedophile; he is not internationally renowned as a chessplayer. His United States Chess Federation rating, from 1990, is 2306 (go here and put in snyder, robert) - respectable, but almost 100 Elo rating points below Senior Master. He has no FIDE rating, let alone a title like Grandmaster, International Master, or even FIDE Master. Krakatoa (talk) 19:26, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree that is what he is largely known for now....But he did found Chess for Juniors and coached them to contention of world records and international tournaments. Maybe we should distinguish his ratings? Hell In A Bucket (talk) 21:25, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

[Responding to a note from Philcha on my talkpage] My opinion is that Snyder's achievements as a chess player should not make him notable. We already consider International Masters a bit iffy on whether they're notable, and Snyder's 2300 rating is a bit short of that even that level. Coaching players who surpass your level does not necessarily confer notability either as notability is generally "not inherited". Whether being featured on "Most Wanted" programs is notable is something I cannot say much about, as I have never seen that program. I'll grant that there are several sources covering Snyder, and that they cover different aspects of his life, so the article probably passes a strict reading of the WP:N and WP:ONEEVENT guidelines and policies. Nevertheless, if this article is kept I would place it in Category:Bottom-importance chess articles as he is not notable as a chess player. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:05, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

My thoughts are about the same. Krakatoa (talk) 07:58, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I will defer to your opinions. If you think it is a lower level importance that's fine. I do no know chess rankings all that well and all I see anytime I see an article is that he is a master chess player. Let's make sure we note that the newspapers and sources call him notable but the ranking maybe different. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 15:16, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with both Krakatoa and Sjakalle. In fact, I tried before to remove the dubious statements in the article but I was reverted by Hell In A Bucket, in a less-than-friendly manner (see my Talk page if you want to have an idea). SyG (talk) 10:46, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

You also didn't care to explain things like they did. All I saw you doing was removing properly sourced statements. Which still are valid, He is a world renowned chess player, he has won internaitonal tournaments. He may not have a official rank off GRAND MASTER but he sources each classify him as a upper tier chess. So before you take the high ground why don't you respond to the fact that you were removing sourced material and stop bitching. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 16:01, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

He is clearly a USCF master of some sort just based on his 2306 rating see Elo_rating_system#United_States_Chess_Federation_ratings and given there is a source says he is a Senior Master I have no reason to doubt it. FIDE don't have much historic data, so it doesn't surprise me there is nothing to be found there. Regarding notability it's somewhat open to debate, the USCF chess master title alone is not quite enough but he has other notable aspects, it is like the situation around Abby Marshall. SunCreator (talk) 16:56, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out as said before I only saw master chess player which was enough in my mind to include it and use that repeated status as a notability claim. I would again urge SyG to actually read the sources before removing things, this is I believe the 3rd time eevidence out of the sources have ben offered to him. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 17:03, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Copyedit request

I agree that this article needs a little work, but grammar & tone aren't the problem. Copy-editing requests are most appropriate when the article in question is relatively complete and fully sourced. I've removed the request for now, but when this stub is expanded I'd be happy to come back and do it. Drop me a note on my talk page. LightHand (talk) 18:10, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Merge

As indicated on this page Chess for Juniors was a very significant youth club in the US. I am opposed to merging that with this as that has it's own notability as does the author for not only his chess career, authorship and deviancy. I would also point out the nominator has not provided a rationale to why this should be merged. I will leave a talkpage note to have a discussion. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 23:14, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Chess for Juniors appears on the Children's Literature clean-up listing as having been tagged for notability. This tag has been in place for over a year, with no apparent response since then. Please note, you state "As indicated on THIS page Chess for Juniors was a very significant youth club ...." I respectfully suggest that this is also where the accompanying book belongs. The Chess for Juniors article consists of three sentences. The references are three LA Times articles, the most recent over fifteen years old. It is classified as a Stub of Low importance. On the other hand, the Snyder article is much longer and already mentions Chess for Juniors, which appears to be one of the reasons why he himself is notable. (The fact that someone who started a chess club for youth is later serving time for "deviancy" is itself not un-notable.) I did not suggest deleting this very small article, but thought of placing it where there is more additional relevant information. Chess for Juniors probably has more significance in WikiProject Chess by virtue of its topic, but hardly seems a stand alone article for Children's Lit. If the Chess for Juniors youth clubs were in fact significant, perhaps the Snyder article could be expanded to include more information re the chess club, and if warranted later spun off to its own article.Mannanan51 (talk) 01:45, 6 November 2012 (UTC)mannanan51

It's not only a book series but also the largest youth club in the country which in turn did coach several champions. The rationale that the references are old likewise doesn't work because per the WP:GNG notability is not temporary. And normally you are correct that a persons crimes do not make them notable but when it involves a public person that was featured on Americas most wanted and had diplomatic implications when he was located in another country which ended up requiring extradition this makes it a different issue. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 02:12, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

"It's not only a book series but also the largest youth club in the country which in turn did coach several champions." That is precisely the point. The article Chess for Juniors is about the book series. If the youth club is more notable, then write an article about that and incorporate mention of the books. Mannanan51 (talk) 03:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)mannanan51

"Chess for Juniors is a children's book series and a large American youth chess club.[1] The club and children's books founded and authored by Robert Snyder. Both the book series and club has met great success in tutoring young ones in chess"

I think it's definitely mentioned it is for both. I personally think that it does warrant a stand alone but let's see what the general consensus is. I've been wrong before certainly won't be ground shattering if I am again. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 03:41, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

www.chessforjuniors.com now links to this - Chess for Everyone. This seems to all be about Snyder's book and his teaching program. I support merging Chess for Juniors into this aricle, with a redirect, of course. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 05:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Misleading (vague) first sentence

Snyder "is an American author." Not a clear indication of what's to follow at all! I've read the Talk page and don't want to reopen its previous lengthy debate - but I do think it has to be said that the result of all the previous Talk has surely thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Consider this: 1) I had to read quite a lot of the article to establish that this "American author" was the same man as the "USCF master Robert M. Snyder" mentioned but unlinked in Wikipedia's Sicilian Defence page; 2) He's a USCF master (a fact undisputed but not clearly stated and instead merely hinted at by means of stating his ELO rating); and 3) It seems (IMHO) quite bizarre to only describe his featuring on America's Most Wanted (etc) via a later small sub-section called "Personal Life" as if relatively unimportant - would you say for example that Crippen was "an America doctor" and only describe his conviction for murder as just "Personal Life" at the end of the article? Of course not! Similarly, is Gary Glitter just "an English pop singer" with his convictions for sexual offences only mentioned later as just "Personal Life"? Of course not! Compare these and other articles like O. J. Simpson to see how they begin. Each has a brief opening sentence or two that includes the things they are/were known for (in chronological order of achievement) and then states when necessary "best known today for" one or another specific thing. The Snyder article fulfills that last part in saying "best known for" the children's chess books, but as a non-US citizen I only knew of his reputation as a USCF chess master and I won't be alone in coming from that angle. He's a chess author (not just a nondescript author), and he's surely notable for being both a USCF chess master and a convicted child sex offender (presumably unique in that combination).

So the article needs: A) A much better opening sentence "... is a USCF master and chess author who was convicted in 2005 of child sex offences." B) An initial sub-section titled "Early chess career" or similar, to be created using a sentence or two from the existing Lede. C) The alteration of sub-section title "Personal life" to "Arrest and conviction". I didn't want to edit the article myself, but having had to go to such length to (I hope) make the above points clearly, I guess I now should. But I'll leave it a day or two for any comments first.

I think your suggested changes would improve the article. Quale (talk) 00:35, 15 August 2017 (UTC)