Talk:Robert Stanford Tuck

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 06:48, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The article is defective in so far as title is concerned; the man was not named Robert Stanford Tuck, but (usually, cf. his biography by Larry Forester) Robert Roland Stanford Tuck. Tuck is the surname (family name); Robert, Roland, and Stanford were so-called "christian" names.

Tuck's medal citations in the Gazette are misquoted. Examining the original text, two of them refer to "Roland Robert Stanford Tuck" rather than "Robert Roland Stanford Tuck".

Both orderings are correct, the first three names being interchangeable. It is a peculiarity of the common law that unless statute says otherwise, a person may go by or change any of their 'christian' or first names for any reason or no reason. Even today, in commonwealth realms it is only a change in 'surname' (middle French for 'nickname') which requires going through the formality of deed poll or public declaration - except of course for a married women taking her husband's name "by repute"; even then, she may revert to her maiden name for any reason, or no reason. 125.236.175.158 (talk) 22:31, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Merge Request

This 'denys cavendish' article can safely take the prize for the most completely incorrect article on Wikipedia!! Bob Tuck was not shot down in 1940, was not executed in 1944, and was not even in Sagan at the time of the Great Escape. I respectfully suggest the link is denied and the article deleted. Harryurz 10:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

DO NOT MERGE - as user Harryurz, Denys Cavendish appears to be a work of fiction and no connection with Robert Standford Tuck. MilborneOne 21:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree - the Denys Cavendish article is utter fiction - DO NOT MERGE. Stanford Tuck was not captured with Roger Bushell in 1940 - he was shot down in N France in January 1942. Whilst he was initially a prisoner in Stalag Luft III, he was transferred before the "Great Escape" and there is no evidence that he was responsible for preventing the escape of the full "250" prisoners. This is complete bunkum and should be removed immediately. The badly written and fictional Denys Cavedush article should be removed from Wikipedia with immediate effect. Duckforce 01:23, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Completely agree with all of the above. There's no evidence that the Cavendish character in the 'The Great Escape' was anything more than an amalgalm of other people, and it's a matter of record that Stanford Tuck was not in Sagan at the time of the Great Escape breakout and that he later escaped and survived the war. (Mark June 30th 2007)

How bizarre! Oppose Merge for all the above reasons and more, there was no Denys Cavendish other than a fictional character. How do you go about the process of deleting (AfD) the Denys Cavendish article entirely? FWIW Bzuk 18:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC).

I am Marxus the writer of Denys Cavendish and I got it from the movie The Great Escape. The movie is based on a true story so I thought he was true. I did nto know I sware I did not know. If I made a mistake delete the article or merge it with Robert Stanford Tuck. Im sorry you can delete that article or merge it. Im am the writer of it and some of the articles I write I don't know are fact or fiction. Im really sorry I try to make sure my articles are the truth and I mostly write truthful articles on biographies and history just please forgive me. - user Marxus

I have another message I dont know wether to merge it or delete but just please do something I dont want to get into trouble and I dont care if you merge it or not or delete it but please I would love to forget this trouble so i dont care what you do with the article Denys Cavendish - user Marxus

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Since a reasonable amount of time has transpired since the request for merger was posted and based on the overwhelming response in opposition to the merge, I am deleting the tag. FWIW Bzuk 16:36, 11 August 2007 (UTC).

––––

Family legend has it that Tuck was, for a time, based at RAF Pembrey and lived in Pembrey. Can anyone confirm or finally dispel this idea? Pete 23:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, he was at Pembrey with 92 Squadron for a spell in July 1940. Khamba Tendal (talk) 22:32, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Jewish

I've heard some doubt/ speculation about the claim that Tuck was Jewish or of Jewish ancestry. It would be nice to have a firm inline citation for that info. So far I am able to find only two RS that seem to suggest the fact:

• Bergström, Christer (2015). Battle of Britain: An Epic Conflict Revisited. Casemate / Vaktel Forlag. p. 55. ISBN 9781612003641. Retrieved 25 February 2018. (in a caption, no reference)
• Jewish Historical Studies: Transactions of the Jewish Historical Society of England. The Society. 2003. pp. 198–200. Retrieved 25 February 2018. (lists him in discussion of Jewish Battle of Britain pilots)

Neither of these is a definitive biographical work, and probably just repeating claims made elsewhere. Can we get a better source Catrìona (talk) 20:57, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Why I cant see that it is important or relevant to his notability. MilborneOne (talk) 23:34, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

It's not important, but facts are to be checked. It seems that his parents were Stanley Lewis Tuck (officer in the Royal West Surrey Regiment in WW1) and Ethel Constance Baker. His paternal grandparents (with some doubts): John Tuck and Helen Stitchley. Were they Jewish? No idea. It seems that some years ago one of Stanford Tuck's sons alleged that so far as he knew his family was not Jewish. Anyway, can the surname Tuck be Jewish (and German)? The answer is yes. See Adolph Tuck. His sons Reginald and Desmond Tuck were officers in 1914 of the 3rd City of London Yeomanry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.17.217.143 (talk) 11:35, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

The claim that Bob Tuck was Jewish, which is now all over the internet simply because it's on Wikipedia, probably shouldn't be in the article, since it's uncited and amounts to a sketchy rumour drawn from a single source: Martin Sugarman's 2002 article on Jewish Battle of Britain aircrew in Jewish Historical Studies, since republished online by the Jewish Virtual Library. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-pilots-and-aircrews-nbsp-in-the-battle-of-britain Sugarman referred to an index card apparently raised in Bob's name by a Jewish military chaplain, one of 60,000 'Jewish chaplains' cards' formerly held by the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women at their Jewish Military Museum in Hendon. The museum was closed several years ago and part of its collection, including an immensely valuable WWII VC, went to the Jewish Museum London in Camden Town. However, 10,000 of the 'chaplains' cards' went to the Ammunition Hill Museum in Jerusalem. The only reason Sugarman gives for a 'chaplain's card' being raised in Bob's name is a single reference to him in the Jewish Chronicle in January 1941, noted on the card. (The card itself may now be in Camden, or it may be in Jerusalem.) Since Sugarman did not check what was actually said about Bob in the JC, that is not worth much. It might only have been a letter to the editor asking whether the famous fighter ace was perhaps related to the Jewish Tuck family, the postcard publishers. But Tuck or Tuke is a Kentish name of Norman origin, from Touques near Deauville in Normandy, and Bob and his father came from south-east London in the vicinity of the Old Kent Road, and Bob made his life in Kent and is buried there in a Christian churchyard. Although Sugarman has done useful research into Jewish service personnel, his article is a little tendentious and makes the ideological claim that F/O George Goodman DFC was an 'Israeli "sabra" ', which would certainly have been news to George Goodman. (I gather George was only cited as 'Israeli' in the notorious end-credits of the film Battle of Britain at the insistence of American bigwigs at United Artists, against the wishes of the film's Jewish producers Harry Saltzman and S. Benjamin Fisz.) Bob Tuck's sons are not aware that their family has any Jewish history and, although it would be interesting, it does not seem to amount to a recognisable fact as of now. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:06, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Whatever his background it is not really relevant to his notability and as you say the referencing is a bit iffy, I would just remove the statement. MilborneOne (talk) 19:38, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Which was his surname? Tuck or Stanford-Tuck?

Was Stanford just a middle name or part of the surname? There are nowadays some people surnamed Stanford-Tuck, for instance Michael Stanford-Tuck, and I might say they are Standford Tuck's heirs or at least relatives. Stanford Tuck had two sons: Michael D.S. Tuck and Simon R.S. Tuck, and in both cases the 'S' I would say that stands for Stanford. In this case, which was the surname of Stanford Tuck's father? Lewis, Tuck, Stanford, Stanford-Tuck? Aside from current webs on genealogy, I'm unable of finding any reference of Captain Stanley Lewis or Stanley Lewis Tuck, Royal West Surrey Regiment.

Surname was "Tuck" - Captain Stanley Lewis Tuck (1887-1970) served in the Royal West Sussex Regiment refer http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D5629124 MilborneOne (talk) 11:30, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.99.89.51 (talk) 11:40, 22 June 2018 (UTC)