Talk:Rock of Ages (Christian hymn)

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"According to a famous but largely unsubstantiated story..." I'm not sure how something can be largely unsubstantiated - it would appear to be either substantiated or not. I suggest "Traditionally..." instead. Any objections? (or a source for what parts of the story are unsubstantiated?) MurfleMan (talk) 05:45, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

No objections, but encouragement. --CutOffTies (talk) 12:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I've made the change. MurfleMan (talk) 22:17, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I've read this reference Wilkins, H. J. An enquiry concerning Toplady and his hymn "Rock Of Ages" and its connection with Burrington Combe Somerset J. W. Arrowsmith Ltd (1938) that seems to have been a fairly thorough investigation in the 1930s by a Rev Wilkins, a Somerset vicar who had once owned a place opposite Burrington Combe. My subsequent changes to the article were all quickly reverted by Rak-Tai, and I couldn't understand his explanation to me (he mentioned Calvanism and sanctification?), so I'm recording the points here, instead. In essence, the reference says that only four lines were published in Gospel Magazine in 1775, and these were

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
let me hide myself in thee!
Foul, I to the fountain fly,
Wash me, Saviour, or I die

You would see by comparison that, although all these four lines appear in the hymn, they don't appear together, and all the verses have six lines anyway. It was the following year, in March 1776, that the hymn we know today was published in the magazine. As Wilkins had gone to the original source, Gospel Magazine, and not just casually looked in a date in a hymn book, it seems fairer to say that the hymn was first published in 1776.

Wilkins also casts doubts on the veracity of the story, pointing out such things as

• it is impossible to write during a downpour in the cleft at Burrington Combe (he attempted it)
• that Toplady had left the area that inspired him 12 years before the publication of the hymn
• Toplady published 21 hymns between 1770--1776, but did not publish his best, Rock of Ages

both Wilkins and Canon Leigh Bennet believed the hymn was published soon after it had been written. He also believed the playing card variation had been "worked up" since didn't appear in print till many years later, and by 1911 it had been divined that it had been the six of diamonds.

This source states that three of Toplady's biographers (Thomas Wright, George Lawton and George Ella) believed the story behind the writing of the hymn to be a fable.

I've not got any axe to grind, but I would have though both Christian and non-christian would be concerned about repeating as fact a story over which there are strong doubts, and, therefore, some mention of these doubts should somehow be included in the article.JBel (talk) 17:51, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Uses / Other

Why do some uses of the hymn in films etc. go in the "Uses" section, and others in the "Other" section? There doesn't appear to be any logic in the distinction. I suggest the two sections be merged. Chuntuk (talk) 13:34, 24 June 2014 (UTC)