Talk:Roger Norreis

"Norreis'" ?

The penultimate paragraph includes the phrase "the Norreis' conduct", as if there were more than one Norreis. I assume something has gone wrong here, but I can't guess what. Maproom (talk) 22:24, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. thanks for catching that. Just an editing artifact - I suspect I originally thought "the abbot's" and switched to "Norreis'" in mid-thought... Ealdgyth - Talk 00:18, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Roger Norreis/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Adam Cuerden (talk · contribs) 18:07, 15 July 2013 (UTC) Well! What a fascinating individual. This is an excellent article that draws you in from the very start.

I'll accept the shortness given the date he lived in likely limiting records, though I really would like to know more.

References appear pretty strong; There may be others out there, but you seem to have chosen pretty well.

I would like to have an image, but, given the date, I can understand why that's impractical, and nothing comes up on a google image search. I suppose you could use an image of one of the priories, but, even then, I suspect most of them were damaged, destroyed, or completely rebuilt since his time, making them of limited value. So, let's let that pass.

This is an excellent article, and actually seems fairly featured article-worthy, with maybe a few more references consulted for possible use in expansion.

Promoted to GA. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 18:07, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Truce

Nice work, Ealdgyth, he's quite the character! I've removed some duplicate words to help improve the flow, but it's all minor stuff. One bit puzzled me slightly though:

..the succession of a new monarch eventually allowed a truce in the dispute between Canterbury monks and their archbishop. But before the truce could be hammered out..

I wonder, how did Richard's succession help resolve the situation? Also, the sentence slightly jars. Perhaps it could read:

..the succession of a new monarch eventually allowed for a truce in the dispute between Canterbury monks and their archbishop. But before the settlement/agreement/peace could be hammered out..

-- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 01:59, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

"the Drain-Cleaner" rather inacurate translation

Cloaca here means sewer and not just a drain (see Cloaca Maxima). Sewers are self cleaning and the main activity inside is to inspect them, e.g. Cloaca Maxima remains in the condition as originally built by the Romans. Thus, the is no position of a sewer cleaner while a drain cleaner rather refers to somebody cleaning sink drains, like a plumber. As Roger Cloacarius was clearly intended as derogatory, it is better translated by "the Sewerer" even, if such word does not exist in English... yet (as it can be created just for the purpose of being accurate here as a neologism) or rather by "the Sewer-man", as the ending "-rius" turns common Latin words into ones associated with people, such as occupations. The English equivalent is the ending "-man". Because "Cloacarius" is clearly offensive, the word "sewer" should be included, while "cleaner" - not.--67.87.187.95 (talk) 14:22, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Take it up with the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, which is the source here. It says "From his exit down the drain, he acquired the nickname of Roger Cloacarius (the Drain-Cleaner)." Remember that medieval Latin is not exactly the same as Classical Latin - the meanings do change over time. We go with what the reliable sources (in this case Jane Sayers in the ODNB) say. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:26, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

@Ealdgyth, cloaca/cloacarius mean the same in classical and medieval Latin. The issue was its English translation: drain vs sewer. The 1st example in Collins dictionary's "Example sentences containing 'sewer'" (www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/sewer) provides that "drain" and "sewer" do not mean the same implying that the underground thing used by Roger is called a sewer, as drains remove water from roofs. It is the technical distinction the "book worm" Jane E. Sayers from ODoNB could not be aware of. Her translation is simply incorrect, though you obviously are right that everything has to be supported by references. Ergo, you can rely on the Collins Dictionary for this particular translation instead of using the Sayers's incorrect one. "Cloacarius" was meant and was really offensive while "drain-cleaner" was simply not. Additionally, a "drain" is Anglo-Saxon word, while "sewer" - Anglo-French more likely used by educated monks. The correction is up to you.--67.87.187.95 (talk) 04:04, 21 October 2018 (UTC)