Talk:Rohith Vemula/Archive 1

Archive 1

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2016

ABVP president Susheel Kumar is not a Dalit. He belongs to Backward Class Community. There were also speculations over identity of Rohith Vemula, which was cleared when the protesting students of the Joint Action Committee formed aftermath of Rohith's suicide shown the media the original caste certificate of Rohith which clearly stated that belonged to scheduled caste community.

Kumarhcu (talk) 11:58, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 19:30, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Caste

The TOI reference that was mentioned already highlighted the confusion about his caste, I have added it. I have also added one more ref regarding the documents that have come to light. -sarvajna (talk) 00:29, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I have also removed a big chunk which mentioned about his FB profile and some other details because those details were not in ref. -sarvajna (talk) 00:30, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Please avoid taking a unilateral POV forward. This is an evolving story. Please add contents from both sides of argument to keep it accurate and complete. Thank you. Bobby Awasthi (talk) 10:35, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Please also add his previous comments about Hinduism

The link can be found in YouTube Suryatejwiki (talk) 15:46, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2016

Prior to this, Rohith also wrote a letter to the Vice-Chancellor stating, "Please serve 10mg Sodium Azide to all the Dalit students at the time of admission. With direction to use when they feel like reading Ambedkar". Kumarhcu (talk) 12:05, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 19:30, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Please also update his controversial comments about Hinduism Suryatejwiki (talk) 16:01, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

The videos can be found on YouTube "Rohit vemula controversial comments on Hinduism" Suryatejwiki (talk) 16:02, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2016

The article as it stands is one sided and makes irreparable damage to the education system in India and brand value of India as a nation as it is being highly politicized.

The truth is that the person who killed himself - presented a fake caste certificate to get into the college, - was heavily involved in caste based student politics, - was challenging the nation that he will create more terrorists if one of them is killed, - Provocative to religious emotions of Hindus by organising Beef festivals which is banned by law - He lost focus on his research and was focused on politics and Hindu hatred - Openly accepted that the organization he is part of, has taught him to (f*&k) Hindus and Hindutva if he comes across it - Was involved in petty politics like tearing up the banners of opponent student unions - Assaulting people

Request you to provide access to edit and put in the other side so that the world reads the truth and decides for themselves, instead of just reading one side. Contributor20150101 (talk) 06:16, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Majora (talk) 06:29, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Notability issues

Suicide of Rohith Vemula is covered by media widely but it may not establish his notability. Please refer WP:BIO1E. When an individual is significant for his role in a single event (here suicide), he may not pass notability. So I would like to point that article should focus more on event that individual. Please give your opinions. Please do not remove notability tag until discussion is closed. Regards--Nizil (talk) 22:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

This article is on event and not on individual. You are accepting that event is notable. Person is not notable but event is. So I have removed unnecessary tag from article. Thank you. --Human3015 ^{I'm up all night to get lucky}  19:51, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Controversies, attacks and vandalism by ABVP

ABVP has been in news regularly due to its violent strategies and right-wing extremism.

• 23 April 2011 : Student activists of ABVP attacked the anchors of MTV's Roadies show in Pune.
• 18 August 2011 : ABVP cadres ransack missionary school over Anna protest in Jharkhand.
• 26 January 2012 : ABVP members set ablaze reels of Telugu film 'Businessman (film)' on the Osmania University campus.
• 29 January 2012 : ABVP protested against the screening of Sanjay Kak's documentary Jashn-e-Azadi, forcing Symbiosis College of Arts and Commerce, Pune to indefinitely postpone the seminar Voices of Kashmir.
• 14 April 2012 : ABVP members attacked Beef Festival in Osmania University.
• 24 August 2013 : After the screening of Jai Bhim Comrade and the performance by Kabir Kala Manch, ABVP attacked students of Film and Television Institute of India, Pune and KKM members blaming them as Naxalite, and asked them to say Jai Narendra Modi.
• 7 September 2013 : A Kashmiri film fest was targeted by the group of right wing extremists in Hyderabad. A group of ABVP workers entered the venue just few hours after the programme started and indulged in vandalism.
• 30 December 2014 : PK film was abstructed by ABVP.

References

Terabar (talk) 05:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Terbar reverts

The article link Terabar provides in edit summary also ends with based on Dr Rao’s report and statement of Susheel Kumar, it recommended suspension of Rohith Vemula. Terabar, why are you deleting reliably sourced information? You may not mass revert a lot of tiny improvements on the pretext of disagreement over one of the edits. Please state your concern and reliable source to back up your assertion. The content presently in the article is backed by reliable sources. --Ekvastra (talk) 07:17, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

You removed some words, changed the meaning of sentences and added unnecessary tags even where the source was present. For example here . Also, I am am removing the contents which has been proved false by medical reports. The attack on ABVB leader has been proved false by medical reports . So there is no meaning of that source which is added. Also ABVB is a right wing extremist student group of RSS which has involved in many attacks on minorities and muslims. See Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad#Controversies, attacks and vandalism. So their allegation that he attacked him is not trust-able and it has been proved false by medical reports as sourced in this paragraph. With regards, Terabar (talk) 12:53, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

The report does not say it has been proved false. You deleted sources that say otherwise. Your own source also does not say so. I quotes it in my above response. I think I added the tags carefully, you purging it without explanation is not helpful. Could you please revert yourself and add content with sources that present your viewpoint? --Ekvastra (talk) 15:38, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

The source which you point towards saying that ABVB leader was assaulted is just an allegation by ABVB leaders. It requires evidence and proof. And to the thing which you say that the source does not say that the assault has not been proven false is a distortion. This is another source where Dr.Rao after examining said

'

• “After collecting all the medical reports of Susheel Kumar and examining them, I could not reach the conclusion that he developed appendicitis due to the alleged assault. There was one line that there was a bruise on his left shoulder. I could not say if he was allegedly punched or beaten up. I did not examine him as he did not come to me and the hospital’s report does not mention that he had any external or visible injury.”

• Source: Is ABVP leader lying about being attacked by ASA members?

• Duty Security Officer (DSO) Dilip Singh, who was the first to reach Susheel’s hostel room that night after receiving a call, said in his report that when he reached the spot, he saw ASA cadres and Susheel Kumar in a discussion.

• “I did not see ASA members beating Susheel. At least it did not happen in front of me. Susheel agreed to give an apology letter and also apologise on FB (Facebook). We all proceeded to the security office where the matter could be settled."

• Source : Dalit student suicide: ABVP leader claimed stomach pain after ‘assault,’ was operated for appendicitis

Also you continue adding unnecessary tags even when there is a source present. And ABVB is a controversial right wing student wing of RSS, which has involved itself into many attacks on minorities so their allegation is also controversial. With regards, Terabar (talk) 17:09, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Can't you read At least it did not happen in front of me & I did not examine him as he did not come to me. It remains that based on Dr Rao’s report and statement of Susheel Kumar, it recommended suspension of Rohith Vemula. And there are other sources (that you deleted) saying there is allegation of attack. So, removing them by asserting (like you are doing) that it has been medically proved conclusively is not there in the article, it is your original research! You may add the sources that you prefer and present this point of view but other secondary sources are equally valid and you may not purge the entire incident. --Ekvastra (talk) 03:38, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

It is "alleged attack" which all sources confirm. Action was taken on it is also confirmed in all sources. There is no sources contradicting that there are allegation of attack and that action was taken. Your source only raises the question if the alleged assault result into increased appendicitis: I could not reach the conclusion that he developed appendicitis due to the alleged assault. Extrapolating it and deleting the whole narration that is available in several sources leaves the article incomplete. --Ekvastra (talk) 03:48, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Let me remind you once again that ABVP is a controversial and a right wing extremist group which has involved itself into many attacks. Again go and check Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad#Controversies, attacks and vandalism . I have pasted it below. Also ,you again removed the words and changed the meaning of sentences to suite your POV. And what was the need to add unnecessary tags just as you [did here] ? I have deleted them once again. Don't remove the words and change the meaning of sentences to suite your POV. As far as false allegations about attack is concerned then the sources presented by me are noteworthy and notable. Mean while, you should read this about the extremist attacks by ABVB. This proves that they are controversial and untrustworthy Terabar (talk) 05:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

We go by what secondary reliable sources give. The alleged attack has been discussed in many secondary sources. Elaborate history of ABVP belongs to its article not here. --Ekvastra (talk) 05:20, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Since the extremist group ABVB is involved over here so it needed to mention that who they are. Terabar (talk) 13:57, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

You do understand that this article is about the suicide, if his cast has been the center stage of so many reliable published article, you may not delete it! You are adding content only for your POV, which is fine, but you are adding excess of them in bulk copy-paste. That gives undue weight to it. Please paraphrase them, removing copyvio and put back referenced content dropping your personal prejudice of what constitutes nonsense (to you). --Ekvastra (talk) 16:01, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

And changing the meaning, removing the words to suit your own POV would work? As you did here Terabar (talk) 16:13, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I accepted your version after your stubbornness. Stop beating the dead horse. The content is as per your wish. Explain your deletion of referenced content. And refusal to paraphrase melodramatic copy-paste from articles to give undue weight (space) to your view. --Ekvastra (talk) 16:32, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I see you have silently changed the diff while I replied (diff). Please do not do so, it is alright to mention it separately. I had replied for your earlier diff. I am not interested any longer in your lengthy wall of text that obviate the matter at hand. If you are unwilling to explain yourself and to come to a common grounds by discussion then the sourced content should stay in and paraphrasing be used to avoid any possible copyvio and undue weight. --Ekvastra (talk) 16:48, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Expecting a response. --Ekvastra (talk) 09:12, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Unbalanced - Section Reactions

The Reactions section mentions unbalanced information and sources and seem to talk more about calling Rohith's caste into question instead of presenting the accurate reactions and protests in the aftermath. A balanced viewpoint with more details about other reactions would be helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.44.223.181 (talk) 14:52, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Caste Controversy: Vaddera (OBC) or Mala (Dalit)?

The case attracted considerable attention both in India and internationally specifically because Rohith Vemula was assumed to be a Dalit . However questions about his caste started emerging in late January. In early February, P L Punia, the chairman of National Commission for Scheduled Castes, termed the questions on Rohith Vemula’s caste identity as a measure to divert attention from discrimination against students from Dalit communities. and decided to “seriously intervene” in the issue.

It was reported that his father Mani Kumar is from Vaddera (OBC) community but his mother is from Mala (scheduled caste, i.e. Dalit) caste. Some reports suggested that the family had acknowledged to be Vaddera in the past. It was later reported that the parents of his mother Radhika, were themselves Vaddera, and that Mani Kumar and Radhika were married with the presumption that Radhika was a Vaddera.

There has been a controversy regarding Rohith Vemula being a Dalit. Justice (retd) A K Roopanwal Commission found that he was not, however National Commission for Scheduled Castes (NCSC) Chairman P L Punia claimed he was. Malaiya (talk) 21:12, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Quoting from a report (Vaddera are OBC, Mala are dalit. OBC are supposedly "higher caste" relative to the dalits, but are "lower caste" relative to the supposed higher "higher castes".):

Vemula Radhika while taking exception to the statement made by Mani Kumar had, however, claimed that she belonged to SC (Mala) caste. “My husband belongs to Vaddera caste. After birth of my third child, we got separated over family disputes. Thereafter, I took care of my three children, and lived in a Mala locality. Three of my children were brought up in the locality following SC Mala customs,” she had maintained while addressing the media at University of Hyderabad on January 23. A requisition was also filed before the Guntur Urban Tahsildar to enquire and certify the caste of Radhika and her two brothers. “Accordingly, enquiry was conducted and it was certified that Vemula Radhika and her brothers are Vaddera (BC) by caste,” the ACP said in his communication to the GP.

It has been reported that Rohith Vemula's mother Radhika was herself raised in a Vaddera family, and that . According to an account Rohith Vemula's mother was actually born a Mala but was was adapted as a one year old and raised by a Vaddera:

“Caste? What is caste? I am a Vaddera (OBC). Radhika’s parents were Mala (Scheduled Caste). I never bothered about her caste. She was like my own daughter. I married her to a man from my caste,” Anjani says and explains how she achieved the feat of the inter-caste marriage between Radhika and Mani Kumar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malaiya (talk • contribs)

References

Page move

@Kurimat: Seek consensus before you move, if the subject is controversial in nature. Else seek help to move controversial pages. --βα£α(ᶀᶅᶖᵵᵶ) 06:04, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

I will delete this article Mass killings under Communist regimes . I hate the defeat of communist government in West Bengal in 2011.

Beef must be made India's national food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kurimat public (talk • contribs) 06:25, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Hitler hated jews and Johnny English was a nice movie despite the poor reviews. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 06:36, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

OBC

The article appeared to be edited by a left political point of view, it still mentioned that he was a dalit. Only the government can decide that. If a white guy claims that he's black, it's bullshit. He doesn't becomes a dalit by repeatedly claiming that he's a dalit. Fun fact : earlier in India these so called lower castes were untouchable, but now a guy from obc is claiming to be lowercaste. Thanks to Indian reservation system. God bless India, heading towards a civil war in my opinion. Let's see what happens, already there are increasing demands for inner reservation (reservation within lowercastes) , I am waiting for the day when there will be no seats left for a general category candidate. It's more than 60% in central government educational institutions as of now. States like Tamil Nadu are hell for general category candidates, it's relatable to Post apartheid era in south Africa. If you are from general category, currently living in India my advise is "leave as soon as possible". I belong to a obc caste, if you're interested. Thanks for reading. -- Russian Rishi (talk) 18:30, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Why I chose Russian rishi as my username? My first name is rishi and I am a medical student in Yekaterinburg, Russia. Thanks. -- Russian Rishi (talk)

What's more important in showing the reality of government educational institutions is he was provided a meagre ₹25,000. Compared to Russia, Germany and United States it's less than half of what students get. Sad but unfortunately true. --- Russian Rishi (talk) 18:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Russian Rishi, Welcome to Wikipedia! Wikipedia is written based on reliable sources. You need to keep your beliefs to yourself and write content based on the reliable sources. Please note that governments are not reliable sources. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:23, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I know that Indian government sucks, sucking since 1947. They are also very efficient in creating fake news, like they did with the India-pakistan dog fight. It was claimed that the pilot who was captured had shot down an F-16, a far better aircraft than mig-21. Not to forget the bomb that killed trees, in Balakot. What I meant by caste assigned/decided by government was : Caste was defined/created by government of India, Hinduism had a Varna system similar to present day caste system. And government has the ultimate right to decide caste, even in the last decade a lot of communities were declared as scheduled caste, after organizing fake survey. Thanks to Vote Bank politics in India. Thanks for the copy-edit. --Russian Rishi (talk) 04:06, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Rohit Vemula.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:00, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

why pull castes in this

Guys, think straight. Terrorist activities are bad. Some group called AVBP opposed terrorists, which makes it good here. Then, a guy called Rohith Vemula opposes AVBP and also hanging of a terrorist, which isn't good. So where does caste come into this? Bringing in the caste-point is only increasing the threat of unstabilising the society further. So better treat this case as a political one rather than one concerned with discrimination. Besides, his suicide note doesn't contain any mention of any atrocities of caste. Perhaps he just gave in to the complexes caused due to cancellation of his stipend, which had a good reason (as mentioned in the beginning). If you are a student it's best to study sincerely avoiding interference in social matters to the extent it affects your education. Besides there are tons of supposedly backward class people in other corners of the country who are doing too good for being classified as backwards and still shamelessly using reservations which ought to be used by those who really need them. What about that, huh?

Why is the title of page "Suicide of Rohith Vemula"?

Why is the title of page "Suicide of Rohith Vemula ". Enough journalistic references cite that his father claims that the alleged suicide note was not written by him. Smriti Irani claimed in parliament that a considerable time lapsed between his hanging and medical examination to pronounce him dead. He was assumed dead before doctors could do it. In absence of clear credible facts, is it right to claim it a suicide? Please reconcile. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arunpurohit (talk • contribs) 16:36, 4 March 2016