Talk:Roman Catholic Diocese of Troyes

Saints connected with the diocese

The section is without references. Most of the persons named are pre-canonization 'saints', i.e. persons of popular local admiration of the time. Most of them are unknown and unheard of today, and therefore there is a question of notability. There is also the issue of the closeness of the 'saint' to the diocese. This section should be heavily edited or deleted. --Vicedomino (talk) 08:04, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Addendum: Pope Urban IV was never a saint, and the bringing of his body to Troyes in 1935 is attested elsewhere in the article. Neither was Marie de Sales Chappuis ever a saint; the nuns of her Order have been promoting their Foundress for a century and more, with limited success.

Another addendum: Marguerite Bourgeoys (1620–1700) spent most of her active life in Canada, where she is buried (Montreal) and is indeed important as the first Canadian female saint. She was only made a saint in 1982. I need proof that she is of importance to the Diocese of Troyes. Just being born there is not, I think, a sufficient connection, in terms of "notability" for Troyes.

--Vicedomino (talk) 12:50, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Could some of these people be moved to the "Troyes" city page, in the subcategory "Personalities"? --Vicedomino (talk) 14:22, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I propose removing (at least), taking into consideration that there was no diocese of Troyes until the fourth century, and the absence of documentation:

• St. Oulph, martyr (second or third century)
• St. Patroclus (Parre), St. Julius, St. Claudius, and St. Venerandus, martyrs under Aurelian;
• St. Savina, martyred under Diocletian;
• St. Syra, the wonder-worker (end of third century);
• St. Ursion, pastor of Isle Aumont (c. 375);
• St. Exuperantia, a religious of Isle Aumont (c. 380);
• St Balsemius (Baussange), deacon, apostle of Arcis-sur-Aube, martyred by the Vandals in 407;
• St. Mesmin and his companions and Saints Germana and Honoria, martryred (451) under Attila;
• St. Aper (Evre), Bishop of Toul, and his sister Evronia, natives of the diocese (towards the close of the fifth century);
• St. Aventinus, disciple of St. Loup (d. c. 537);
• St. Maurelius, priest at Isle Aumont (d. C. 545);
• St. Bouin, priest and solitary (d. c. 570);
• St. Potamius (Pouange), solitary (close of sixth century);
• St. Flavitus, solitary (563-630);
• St. Tancha, virgin and martyr (d. 637);
• St. Victor, solitary (d. 640);
• St. Maura, virgin (827-850);
• St. Belina, virgin, slain about 1153 in defence of her chastity (it was rape, not martyrdom);
• Blessed Menard and Blessed Herbert, abbots of the monastery at Mores founded by St. Bernard (end of the twelfth century); (not even saints)
• Blessed Jeanne, the recluse (d. 1246);

--Vicedomino (talk) 02:55, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

On 10 April 2017, the following names were pruned from the list. They are either non-noteworthy, or have a trivial connection to the diocese; and they are unreferenced:

• St. Patroclus (Parre), St. Julius, St. Claudius, and St. Venerandus, martyrs under Aurelian;
• St. Aventinus, disciple of St. Loup (d. c. 537);
• St. Maura, virgin (827-850);
• St. Adalricus (slain by the Normans about 925);
• St. Malachy, archbishop, Primate of Ireland, died at Clairvaux (1098–1148);
• St. Belina, virgin, slain about 1153 in defence of her chastity;
• Blessed Menard and Blessed Herbert, abbots of the monastery at Mores founded by St. Bernard (end of the twelfth century); Blessed Jeanne, the recluse (d. 1246);
• Pope Urban IV (1185–1264);

Note that Clairvaux is not administratively connected with the diocese. Just dying in the diocese (Malachy of Armagh) is a feat still being accomplished by thousands every year.

--Vicedomino (talk) 02:51, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Saint-Urbain and Sainte Chapelle

The text states that Saint-Urbain is reminiscent of La Sainte Chapelle. Well, maybe, except that Saint Chapelle has no buttresses; Saint Chapelle has no transepts; Saint Chapelle has no aisles; Saint Chapelle has an elaborate Gothic ciborium where the relics were on view; Saint Chapelle has a lower church (not just a crypt); Saint Chapelle has only four bays; Saint Chapelle has a fleche. There is no comparison with the glass, and the façade of St. Urbain is mid-19th century. I fear that the comparison is a local delusion. --Vicedomino (talk) 13:15, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Split Tag: NO split off

It is suggested that the "Bishops" section be split out to a list page. But the list is heavily annotated with material relevant to the diocese, and the bishops were the chief executive officers. As indicated elsewhere on the Talk page, there are materials of far less relevance on the page that should be spun off or deleted. Taking out the "Bishops" is atomizing a topic into additional micro-pages, making relevant details harder to find. It is tinkering for the sake of tinkering. I am opposed to this particular move. --Vicedomino (talk) 18:31, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Two months after the proposal, no argument in favor of the split off to a list page has been offered. --Vicedomino (talk) 07:51, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Three months after the proposal, no arguments have been offered. I would offer the additional negative argument that nearly all the French dioceses and Italian dioceses have a list of bishops as part of the diocesan page; consistency argues that separate lists NOT be created. In the absence of interest, I am removing the template. -- Vicedomino (talk) 04:08, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Removed flag of French Republic from Infobox, per WP:ICON.

I removed the French Republic flag icon from the Infobox, in accordance with several sections of WP:ICON; specifically (quoting),

• "Generally, flag icons should not be used in infoboxes, even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they are unnecessarily distracting and give undue prominence to one field among many...."
• "Flags make simple, blunt statements about nationality, while words can express the facts with more complexity."
• "Do not rewrite history. Flags should not be used to misrepresent the nationality of a historical figure [including some bishops], event, object, etc. Political boundaries change, often over the span of a biographical article subject's lifetime. Where ambiguity or confusion could result, it is better not to use a flag at all, and where one is genuinely needed, use the historically accurate flag."