Talk:Romani people in fiction

Piers Anthony

Not mentioned in the main article nor the fictional representations article (a fact that surprised me to be honest)... but the author Piers Anthony (probably best known for the highly popular Xanth novels, among many others) featured Roma characters in several books of his "Incarnations of Immortality" series. The portrayal was highly positive, and was in fact the first time I ever heard of the term "Roma" or anything else about these peoples beyond the mostly negative stereotype images of travelling fortune tellers that steal. I havent read these books in 10-15 years so I no longer remember which of the series contain Roma characters, but they were dominant in a few books. I think "Being a Green Mother" is one of them. Anyway if someone knows which of the series are relevant, they should be in here. Otherwise, perhaps the whole series ought to be cited? Murple 19:26, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds legit to me. Go ahead and add in the series. - TheMightyQuill 20:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Other Literature

'The White Witch" (1958)by Elizabeth Goudge features a very detailed story line and description of the lifestyle of the Romnichals of the UK during the civil war. So possibly it should be added to the book list as well.--Thistlecat 07:49, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Added Star of Gypsies by Robert Silverberg to the Literature section Discordian (talk) 15:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Removed Chocolat -- the character is Irish, not Romany

I removed the movie Chocolat from the film list, because as far as I can tell, Johnny Depp plays an Irish wanderer, not a Roma. Same as the Brad Pitt character in Snatch. Softlavender (talk) 03:59, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

• I also removed a reference to the 2000 movie Snatch as it has a group of Irish travellers who are not Romani. Sunset through the clouds (talk) 23:35, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Irish Traveller show The Riches

I just spotted another one The Riches about a family of Irish Travellers in the United States. They are not a branch of the Romani people so its been deleated. It's already on the Irish Traveller page. Sunset through the clouds (talk) 18:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• I just removed the reference to the Tuatha'an, colliqually reffered to as Tinkers, from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. Firstly the Tuatha'an is influenced by Irish and Gaelic myths, secondly the Tinkers either Irish Travellers or Scottish Highland Travellers and are not included in the Romany peoples. Again the comment is on the irish traveller page, I think the editor is getting mixed up with the one size fits all theory everyone called a Gypsy must be Romanies. This of course is wrong and has been removed. The only reference to Romany cuture is that the Tuath'an dance a dance called the Tsigane. Sunset through the clouds (talk) 00:02, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Article needs major re-write

This article is mostly a list, and lists are not appropriate for WP articles. In addition, it is mostly not a compilation of fictional representations of Romani people, but rather fictional representations of people who are considered stereotypically Romani. This is a disservice to the community and further perpetuates the stereotypes (whether "positive" or negative). The article should be limited to a discussion of Romani people in fiction. As I have read only one book, I am not qualified to re-write, but it would be good if someone did. Makana Chai (talk) 09:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

You make a good point. I think we may have an amalgamation of two potentially separate 'articles' here. Firstly, an analysis on how Romani people have been and continue to be 'stereotyped' in fiction, and a list of Romani characters in fiction. The latter is easily extracted. The former would require some academic framework. RashersTierney (talk) 10:54, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Would you be able to do the analysis? I would be happy to help in terms of editing, wikifying, etc. Makana Chai (talk) 18:56, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to see a little more feedback from other eds before such a major change, but in principle its a move I would support. We would also need to agree names for both articles. RashersTierney (talk) 19:43, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Agree, and what to do about the fantasy role-playing games? I think it should all be removed and should not be placed in a separate article. It has nothing to do with Romani except as perpetuating stereotypes. Makana Chai (talk) 20:48, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Rather than having it divided by literature, movies, and games, what would you think of categorizing by Protagonists; Minor characters; Plot devices; Stereotypical "gypsy-like" characters. Or something like that - other ideas welcomed. Makana Chai (talk) 06:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Are there related articles that might give some guidelines, or is the approach here at this article unique, eg are there (similar, if not exactly titled) Fictional representations of Jewish people, Fictional representations of Russian people, Fictional representations of Irish people, and if unique, why does it exist at all? RashersTierney (talk) 09:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Good point! If there are others, they could be a template. And if not, why this one? Really, for the most part this one makes my skin crawl. Much of it is borderline racist IMHO. And it definitely violates WP policy not to have lists. What do you think? Can anyone find similar articles, and if not, does that justify deletion? Makana Chai (talk) 18:48, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

If you look at secular Jewish culture and other links within that article, what you are struck by is that it is about literature by Jews, whereas almost everything in this article is about (but not by) Romani. I shudder to think what an article "fictional representations of Jews" would look like. Given there is a dearth of fictional representations by Romani, can we at least clean up this article to take out the worst stereotyping? Makana Chai (talk) 20:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps a section 'Criticism of Romani stereotypes', might put the issue in some perspective. Thomas Acton and Ian Hancock, inter alia,should provide sufficient citable material. RashersTierney (talk) 00:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't realize until just now that "gypsy stereotypes" redirects here. Makana Chai (talk) 05:59, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with my fellow Wikipedians on the rewrite and article theme split. The field of Roma Studies is relatively new, but, taking inspiration from other articles on Wikipedia, such as on African Americans, et cetera usually there is a macro section on stereotypes, with analysis of relevant fiction where the tropes are found. There are though more authentic and multifaceted portrayals of Roma from Roma authors in literature, albeit one has to dig a bit to find it. It may be worth considering whether the article expands on various types of prejudice in fiction or discusses different Roma characters, well rounded or not. Part of the unfortunate truth though is the academic literature isn't as well discussed as other groups. Quick search and you can find Nobel Savage, Mammy, et cetera and examples drawn from the media but there's less discussion of Roma, though not impossible and I am glad to see more of it. @Makana Chai KnowTheManyHistories (talk) 03:58, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Journal Englich studien

To me, that is poorly spelled German, so I have corrected it on that basis.
If I am in error, please adjust. Varlaam (talk) 18:56, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Les Misérables, Victor Hugo, published 1862

Might deserve a mention. Javert's mother was not directly depicted as a Rom but she was arrested for fortune-telling and his family background is described as 'bohemian' by Hugo, which often meant Romani in the literature of that time period. Someone who has a better grasp of the book might want to add citation and a better formulated addition to the article than I can manage. Kind Regards, SM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.149.162.156 (talk) 09:13, 3 June 2022 (UTC)