Talk:Ronnie Coleman/Archive 1

Archive 1

Removed info?

Didn't this article have much more info before, saying that Coleman is an ambassador for the sport and is involved in several projects to keep kids off the streets etc? Whatever happened to that? Jack Daw 23:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm.... I'm betting that it got removed because it was PR, and not up to encyclopedic standards.

3RR?

What's with all the back-and-forth reversions to this article? It looks like people have been seriously violating the three-revert rule. The next person to violate it will be blocked. Please find other ways to resolve your differences. - Brian Kendig 16:42, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Take a close look at the users who have been reverting changes - they're cases of reverting obvious, simple vandalism and reverting the edits of a banned or blocked user. (the users vandalizing this article are sockpuppets) Page protection has been implemented as a result. Yankees76 17:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the protection, as I don't believe this is the proper use of semi-protection as laid out in Wikipedia:Semi-protection policy. I've added this page to my watchlist, and I'm going to keep an eye on it. If specific users begin vandalizing it again, I'll block them - please, for your sake, don't get into another endless loop of reverting the same user over and over again! By the way: the vandalism appears to center on the "Current stats" section of the page. 24 inches is 60.96cm, so 61cm appears to be the correct stat, and 58 inches is 147.32cm, so 147cm appears to be the correct stat. If I'm incorrect please let me know, but if people vandalize these numbers then I'll help deal with it. Feel free to flag my attention on my Talk page if there's ongoing vandalism here that I've missed. - Brian Kendig 01:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

The vandalism centered on the addition of the phrase "dat dere Cell-Tech", along with a link to a web forum and/or image of someone's personal email purported to be from the subject of this article (along with the stats changes you mentioned). Both vandalism - and both changes reverted by numerous editors besides myself. And, since your removal of the semi-protection a few hours ago, the article has already been vandalized by 2 unregistered users (207.200.116.136 and 172.190.203.136 - both AOL accounts - within six minutes of each other (which is why King of Hearts protected the page). If you look through the backhistory of this talk page, you'll find where the vandal has shown a total disregard for Wikipedia. [1]. Just my .02. Yankees76 02:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Brian, I'll assume you were referring to the edit war a few weeks back I was in when you spoke of the three revert rule. While I certainly admit to being wasteful of server resources during that whole ordeal, I'd like to point out how the vandalism kept going on for over an hour and a half, until said vandal gave up and left of his own accord, with no admin anywhere in sight. That said, for some stupid reason or another, I've invested quite a bit of time into keeping this article unmolested.

Yet the vandals, presumably from the bodybuilding forums mentioned at the top of this talk page, are somehow more obsessive than me. I don't understand why anyone would spend so much time fighting a losing battle, but for some reason, they are bent on keeping this completely nonsensical edit in:

Supplements: BSN Supplements www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bigron.htm and possibly dat dere Cell-tech.
Questionable proof of cell-tech use: <nowiki<forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310862&d=1150408493</nowiki>

"Dat dere Cell-tech" is some kind of catchphrase that the vandals think is hilarious, and the link is to a made-up joke image -- typical message board nuisance behavior. I'm pretty sure, however, that the bulk of the edits are being made by the same guy/girl (207.200.116.136 (talk • contribs • WHOIS • block user • block log)), who said on June 23rd:

That's fine..
I'm creating plenty of new usernames each day..

Lastly, the semi-protection was favored by at least two other administrators, King of Hearts and Glen/Stollery (sorry to put words in your mouths, guys), one of whom said to me:

... msg me for sure if it happens again!

Much later edit: User:GIen actually wasn't an administrator. My fault (he will be one soon, though). -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 08:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Three closing points: First, the semi-protection only slowed down the vandalism, and now it will be nonstop. Second, 3RR does not apply to vandalism reverting. Third, this is most definitely vandalism and not a content dispute. This is not commentary or editorializing, it's just garbage being posted for giggles. I don't know anything about Ronnie Coleman, nor pretend to, but I know nonsense when I see it.

Many thanks for your attention and patience, and my sincere and humble thanks for your consideration. -- Omicronpersei8 03:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

First, I agree completely that this page should be protected until the vandalism stops. Second, my guess (and this is only a guess) is that it has something to do with the fact that Coleman endorses products from BSN, which competes with MuscleTech (which makes Cell-Tech). So I guess the vandal(s) may think it's scandalous or something. Frankg 03:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, the vandal keeps editing "I'm pretty sure, however, that the bulk of the edits are being made by the same guy" to read "...by the same guy/girl." I think the vandal is, for some reason, trying to clue us in on her gender! Frankg 19:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

• Lastly, Ronnie Coleman is not the only article being hit by this vandal. The entry for buttocks has also had unecessary reverts over the inclusion of one word. That page was also semi-protected as a result, and since then vandalism has ceased (thanks to the speedy blocking of numerous sockpuppets of danwat1234) - the main vandal of this page. Yankees76 03:56, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually I wasn't referring to any edit war a few weeks back - I saw the recent constant reversions between two named accounts, and I assumed it was an edit war. My bad; I didn't realize one of them was a vandal. I'm willing to accept that this article might be a situation for semi-protection - that is, that the vandalism is overwhelming the editors, and comes from a wide range of IP accounts such that blocking individual accounts isn't practical - but, it looks like the only vandal today has been User:207.200.116.136 from AOL, and that's been blocked already. I suspect that if any account which vandalizes this article (in the specific way commonly seen, such as with that silly catchphrase) is blocked immediately as a suspected sockpuppet, that'll help things a lot for this article as well as others. What do you think? (And, do you know what the user's original account was?) - Brian Kendig 05:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's a list of all accounts blocked so far [2]. Note that the article for Jay Cutler (bodybuilder) has now been vandalized by yet another sockpuppet of this same user. [3]Yankees76 13:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, judging from all the sockpuppet abuse of this page, I agree it's a fitting situation for being sprotected - but keep in mind that sprotection isn't meant to be indefinite, it's only supposed to be in place for a short time, per policy. I noticed that even with sprotection in place, the article has still gotten vandalized, though... is that another sockpuppet account of the same person? - Brian Kendig 15:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Potentially. Generally if they're making the exact same reverts I'd label them as a sock. We have enough evidence (see above statement about 'creating new user names everyday') to tag any new user account that makes these edits as a sockpuppet. I agree that protection should not be permanent. I've run into a very similar situation in the past with Repartee, and eventually the gag becomes old and they leave. Yankees76 16:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Time for semi-protection again?

Looks like a good candidate for semi-protection to me, but I'd like to get a few other opinions. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 21:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. It's alot easier to block the sockpupppets on sight than constantly revert AOL IP edits. Yankees76 21:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Can someone explain the rationale of unprotecting the article on the day that it's vandalized by two separate, newly-created sockpuppets? I'm just curious about the thought process there. Yankees76 03:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I unprotected because I blacklisted the link that was being added to the article. Hopefully this will result in less spamming, but if it continues, I will reprotect. Naconkantari 03:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I didn't know that could be done. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 13:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur. Kudos.Yankees76 15:01, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The same junk is being posted again. The new link as of the 15th was:

http://forums.2cpu.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2321&stc=1&d=1152866091

Could we get that blacklisted if it starts popping up again, please? -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 08:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

He is a 2006 Olympia winner according to this article. Please correct

Time for semi-protection again.Yankees76 21:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

personal info's

Should there be a mentioning about his wife and two children. In finnish version of the article it is mentionet that ronnie has a wife and two childre plus reference http://www.ronniecoleman.net/biographyfacts.html "Children : Jamilleah Daniels, Valencia Daniel". altho no mention about a wife. User:Testikayttaja 20:57, 22 Dec, 2006 (UTC).

Ronnie isn't married. The Finnish version has incorrect information. Yankees76 23:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe then info that he is currently single and has two children. User:Testikayttaja 10:37, 24 Dec 2006 (UTC)

Mention Of Metroflex Gym On The Ronnie Coleman Page

I would like to add a mention that Ronnie Coleman trains at Metroflex Gym in Arlington, Texas. This information should be able to be verified in his DVD's, numerous magazine/newspaper articles about him, and on the three Metroflex Gym-related websites:

http://www.MetroflexGym.com http://www.MetroflexGymTraining.com http://www.MetroflexGymProductions.com

If this is considered appropriate information for inclusion, please enter it whenever it is appropriate to do so.

Thank you. Metroflex 04:52, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Yankees76 03:12, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

New section on steroids

Per Maxanova (talk · contribs)'s request, I've added a sourced section on steroids accusation. There is one source that I'm not sure would qualify as reliable [4]; opinions are welcome. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 05:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't beleive Bodybuilding.com qualifies as a reliable source. Yankees76 19:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Bodybuilding.com is a large site, and is only a source for confirmation that there are allegations in the bodybuilding community. Also, after the word BALCO in the first sentence, it should say "hearings", sorry, typo on my part. PS, thanks Ohnoitsjamie, for putting the sourcing in correctly, I'm a total newb with the conventions of this site. Maxanova 20:12, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, in the following source, the PalmBeach Post says that Coleman admitted to taking steroids for over a decade.

• http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/03/25/m1a_STEROIDS_0325.html

I would like to revise the steroids paragraph to include that. It's extremely significant. Maxanova 20:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, there are persistent allegations by fitness enthusiasts and natural bodybuilders that Coleman and most other professional bodybuilders are using anabolic steroids and/or human growth hormone . Isn't it what is called an euphemism LOL Nico92400 (talk) 09:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Picture?

Why there is no picture of Coleman? If nobody have free picture of him, maybe we can add some nice screencap from some of his movies. Petkowsky (talk) 21:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Can someone ad that Coleman has stated in this youtube video that he does want to come back to bodybuilding and remove the citation needed? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqg2usKWH7M&feature=channel_page

add measurements

add measurements and comparisons e.g.to jay cutler and arnold schwarzenegger — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.221.97 (talk) 04:35, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

add measurements

add measurements and comparisons e.g.to jay cutler and arnold schwarzenegger — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.221.97 (talk) 04:37, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Why? And why compare to just Cutler and Schwarzenegger? --Quartet 21:40, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Unprotected

Completely unprotected as a test. If vandals come back, semi protection is the best bet. --Woohookitty^{(cat scratches)} 20:09, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Imo it should be set to semi protection. For what ever the dim wits at clackamas community college (the user of that ip I know I am a student) think it's funny to mess with wikipedia. It ends up harming everyone because a blanket ban is put on our ip.

I just protected the page from anonymous edits for three months after noting what appears to be exclusively vandalism edits from anon addresses for this page. Protection log shows page has been protected on and off since 2006. --Zippy (talk) 19:49, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Why so much vandalism? Semi-protection?

Anybody have a hypothesis why this page gets such a high percentage of vandalism? I'm thinking the page should be permanently semi-protected to prevent IP vandalism. It's annoying to see this page pop up so often in my watchlist and the vandalism complicates the article history which makes actual work on the article more difficult. Jason Quinn (talk) 16:19, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 11 October 2012

please change ronnie coleman married to christien akard to he is in a commited relationship with [removed] for 3 1/2 years. please also add they have two children together. their first daughter is named [removed] and was born [removed] 2010 and their second daughter is named [removed] and was born [removed] 2012. [removed] is the mother of both their daughters. ronnie named them after their mother. please also take down the picture of ronnie amd christien. Febosulo (talk) 09:00, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 06:15, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I find that response inadequate. Febosulo has bought attention to a potential major flaw with the article. You (rightfully) deny addition of the material under WP:RELIABLE but you failed to notice that the material currently there is also inadequately sourced. My Google search failed to yield reliable sources supporting Febosulo's claims but I did find some material from unreliable sources suggesting it is likely true. The material should be viewed as contentious. On top of that using names in the article is a privacy concern. While Febosulo's request cannot be done, it does bring to light that all this material should be deleted to comply with the letter and spirit of BLP. Jason Quinn (talk) 06:37, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

I have taken out the named in the above. If properly sourced it can be added to article. But you shouldnt give full names of (minor) children of BLP's unless they are notable in their own right. Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:42, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Also, lose the exact DOB of non notable minors. Birth year is plenty sufficient. --Malerooster (talk) 02:03, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.

Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:

• http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson91.htm

  Triggered by \b(easy)?(hairgrowth|bodybuilding(?!-magazin)|weightloss?|mafiawar|sixpackabs)(secret)?\b on the global blacklist

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Big Ron and Steroids, proposed addition to article!

I propose adding the following sourced section about Ron Coleman and steroids:

Coleman has repeatedly accused of using performance enhancing drugs. In 2003, during the BALCO track star Tim Montgomery testified under oath to a federal grand jury that Victor Conte had bragged about getting Coleman to use Winstrol, an illegal steroid. An ongoing investigation by a New York State grand jury into online pharmacies indicates that Coleman allegedly recieved fraudulent prescriptions for steroids. Additionally, there are persistant allegations by fitness enthusiasts and natural bodybuilders that Coleman and most other professional bodybuilders are using anabolic steroids and/or human growth hormone.

these, along with wikipedia's own article for Bodybuilding are my sources for the paragraph above.

• http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/06/24/MNGEK7AMTF30.DTL

• http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/other4.htm

• http://www.timesunion.com/specialreports/steroids/

Maxanova 00:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

HEY! The fact that Coleman is a cop and uses illegal drugs is worth mentioning! Essentially, EVERYONE in the bodybuilding world uses steroids, unless they enter "natural" bodybuilding contests and submit to testing. At the very least, the fact that none of Ronnies titles come from contests that test is worth mentioning. Even if you don't say overtly that he uses steroids, you can say that he rufuses to be tested, because that much is true.

Does Ronnie Coleman use steroids?

The writer stats, "There has been no public mention by Ronnie on whether or not he utilizes steroids, but most in the bodybuilding world feel that it is an absolute certainty due to his unparalled mass and incredibly low fat percentage."

In Ronnie's first video, Mitsuru Okabe’s “Ronnie Coleman”, Ronnie clearly states to the entire viewing world that he uses steroids.

It is a wise idea to watch the video to personally hear Ronnie say, without a shadow of a doubt, that he uses steroids.

With this evidence the issue is closed and the article must be edited immediately.

Also, who are the most and who the few in the bodybuilding world? Absolutely everyone in the bodybuilding world knows that Ronnie uses steroids, unless they are very young or ignorant.

Even if Ronnie never stated his steroid use, which he did, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.

I have personally never heard Ronnie say he used steroids, although I will attempt to find that video. True, anyone who has even a little knowledge of bodybuilding or has attempted to build muscle will tell you its impossible to gain that much mass and stay so lean without the use of some serious steroids. BoxingNut83 23:43, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I watched a bit of the video and I think you may be getting confused by a quote in the beginning of the movie where Ronnie says before he got into bodybuilding, all he knew about it was that bodybuilders used steroids and had a strict diet. Perhaps I missed this part you are claiming is there... Where exactly is it at in the video? 70.17.196.226 01:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Ronnie was implicated in the BALCO scandal during testimony. This needs to be in the article. Here's the source:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/06/24/MNGEK7AMTF30.DTL

At the very least, accusations of steroid use need to be in the article. Here are some more sources:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/other4.htm

http://www.timesunion.com/specialreports/steroids/

if three sources aren't enough to get a mention of steroid allegations in this article, we have somebody in admin who's conspiring against the truth. 67.180.193.148 08:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)maxanova

There is not any chance that a person can get as big as Coleman without Steriods or/and Growth Hormones.--Wikikidboy 11:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Winstrol is not illegal. It's controlled. There's a difference. I edited the steroids section accordingly. Nevar1982 03:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Does ANYONE really wonder if Coleman uses steroids ???? it's like wondering if World Trade Center is destroyed or not !!!! Nico92400 (talk) 11:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Nobody cares about an IFBB bodybuilder taking steroids. It just doesn't matter because the majority of them do it. Plus Ronnie said that he only takes dat dere Cell-Tech. 69.246.135.91 (talk) 19:11, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

He blames it on someone else but here he is admitting to drugs use, while still a police officer.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR1KFXssow0

and here he is saying that he did not take any drugs

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOk38Ozc28

--Timtak (talk) 01:30, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Mr. Universe???

The article claims that Mr. Coleman was Mr. Universe in 1991. I cannot verify this claim. Various other claims of him winning Mr. Universe are floating around on the net too. But Wikipedia and the official lists I have found of the Winners (for the various organizations that use "Mr. Universe") do not include Mr. Coleman. Seems like an error. Jason Quinn (talk) 00:09, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

This NABBA list does not include Mr. Coleman. It suggests Victor Terra was the professional winner in 1991 and Reiner Gorbracht was the amateur winner. It's unclear to me if that list is of the contest winners or just "Hall of Fame" members (or if the lists are the same). Jason Quinn (talk) 00:37, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

You're 100% correct and it looks like this may have been added as a form of sneaky vandalism. Coleman competed in 3 shows in 1991, two NPC shows (Nationals and USA Championships, where he placed 4th and 14th) and the World Amateur Championships which he won, and afterward competed as an IFBB pro from 1992-2007.--Yankees76 ^Talk 13:21, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I tracked it down. It was this edit from 142.161.34.141 on 15 August 2008. Unfortunately this error was around long enough that people have used it in blogs and mirror articles. There's now a chance that somebody will re-add it thinking they are contributing to the article. I am going to add a hidden note to the list to try to prevent this from happening. The sentence about the 1991 win was added by this edit by User:Musclesmurf on 20 October 2010. That was probably an honest mistake. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:41, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

UPDATE: The claim that Coleman won the 1991 Mr. Universe now is on his official website's "About Ronnie" page. Not only is it in his list of titles but it's in the biographical narrative too. I believe we are still correct about him not winning the title in 1991. It appears to be copy-pasta from elsewhere, probably by whomever was hired to make him a website. Jason Quinn (talk) 16:07, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Inconsistent Data

In the quick info it says he has a weight of 300/340 lbs and in the article it says 280/300. Also the conversation of 300/340 to kg is really misleading because it seems that 40 lbs are only 10 kg. Also, Im no expert, but I guess he doesnt have a 90" forearm... --Patrickf4v (talk) 18:51, 22 March 2015 (UTC)