Talk:Rosemary A. Dobbins

Sourcing and notability problems

The only reliable source in the article that mentions Rosemary is the first one, a brief NASA blurb. The entirety of the article is based on the Findagrave memorial, which is not a reliable source, and what appears to be a lot of WP:OR (personal knowledge?). There are no sources that support notability, and I'm not having any luck finding any new ones. Schazjmd (talk) 23:51, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Schazjmd: I reviewed the article several days ago. I was planning to send it to draft as large sections of it are unsourced and its very puffy. I do think she is notable. The reason I kept in mainspace is 1) She is quite well known with that group 2) Her work is instantly recognisable for 1960-1970's during the Apollo missions. As soon as you see it, you know its her work. 3) I found an obituary and I suspect there is probably more. 4) There is barely any women of that calibre on Wikipedia. The article does need work, no doubt about that and as the original editor may still be around to do some updates. scope_creep^Talk 01:36, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi scope creep, I was going to clean up the article by replacing the findagrave ref, so I started checking the other sources to see what I could write about her without relying on findagrave. There's hardly anything verifiable. I could see her possibly meeting WP:ARTIST #3 or #4, but where are the sources? Anyway, I put it on my to-do list to follow up on in a few weeks to give it time for more sources to be found. As it stands, the article is a WP:MEMORIAL. (The original editor's WP:OR problems on another article are how I found this one.) Schazjmd (talk) 13:53, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@Schazjmd: I changed doesn't to does need work. My grammer is woeful. I did really mean "does need work". That findagrave ref, I don't know why folk insist on using it. It pops up on the script like a beacon. If you want to start on it, crack on. I was hoping to keep some of the images and try and keep a coreof it. Ill try and find some better sources, maybe another obit would be decent to fill some of the early biographical info. Nasa is probably a good idead , but pining down documents for individual sources in Nasa is difficult. I plan to ask for help of a couple of folk who are really good at this sort of thing, if don't mind. scope_creep^Talk 14:48, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

scope creep, I figured the "doesn't" was a typo. I found [The Art of NASA]; GB doesn't find "rosemary" in an internal search of it, but I'm going to request it at my library to double-check if there's any mention of her in it. Schazjmd (talk) 15:12, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@Schazjmd: I've asked four editors who were very active on rescuing the June Preston article. They did a great job updating it. Hopefully they will bring a bunch of folk in to do update it. scope_creep^Talk 16:04, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Also, I started to check out the images. According to the upload on Commons, the article creator is Rosemary's child. Schazjmd (talk) 17:43, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

• The Find-a-grave source includes 2 obits, one that appears to have been published by the Huntsville Times, The (AL) - Sunday, October 29, 2006, with the title "Rosemary Dobbins - Born artist learned early to stand up for herself", and while there is reliance on statements by her family, there also appears to be some independent content about her. I have not had any luck finding the original obit on Al.com, and I am not adept with newspapers.com, but using the original source could help address the concern about Find-a-grave. I have searched GBooks, GScholar, and the WP Library databases I have access to, including ProQuest, with a variety of search terms, and searched NASA art collections, and I am concerned about the indications (including NASA's "Hidden Figures" campaign) that she was uncredited and therefore "unseen" in NASA history until recently. I have not found anything more to add at this time, but I am hoping that someone with newspapers.com skills can conduct a more thorough search for sources. I think a notability claim could be made per WP:ARTIST#4(b) "a substantial part of a significant exhibition" if we can verify the inclusion of her work in places such as the lobby of NASA, and perhaps WP:ARTIST#1 "is regarded as an important figure" due to how NASA describes her work as including "many iconic images of the Apollo era". Beccaynr (talk) 21:55, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

@Beccaynr: I've asked at WP:WIR for some help on newspaper.com scope_creep^Talk 13:57, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Have you tried asking at WP:WRE? ;; Maddy ♥︎(they/she)♥︎ :: talk  15:28, 30 May 2022 (UTC)