Talk:Ruby McCollum

State of article

This article is a mess and needs a thorough cleanup; it also appears not to adhere to WP:NPOV and one of the editors may have a conflict of interest. This is being discussed at WP:Editor assistance/Requests#dispute about Ruby McCollum listing. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:25, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

This is a request for an objective review of this article by a person who has not contributed to it, nor who is related to any of the characters in the story. I have researched the story for years, written 3 books on it, and have numerous National Public Radio and TV reviews to my credit. My contributions have been assailed by the prosecutor's granddaughter, who offers no support for her criticism. In response to her attacks, I have added numerous citations and links to professional articles, etc. This is why we need some impartial person to review this article for the good of Wikipedia readers.

Your time is appreciated. Artellis1000 (talk) 01:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC) Signed, C. Arthur Ellis, Jr., Ph.D.

Updates and editing

I don't have a stake in this, except improving the article. I had many questions and believed that basic facts needed to be included. Also, new works are being both published and released as documentary films about McCollum and the case - and the many silences which society of the time tried to impose on the facts. So I'm adding some of those and trying to consult more of the sources.Parkwells (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Forced Child

The article does not make it clear how this was done. Racist custom, blackmail over subjects criminality, drug influence? Information should be properly sourced and put in the article. 2A00:23C5:E097:5D00:5539:1A63:598F:D24F (talk) 05:29, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Ruby McCollum Murderess of Live Oak, Florida - THE UNTOLD TRUTH

unsourced discussion of the facts of the case
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
There have been five books written about the murder of Dr. Leroy Adams in Live Oak, Florida by the wife of "Bolita" Sam; Mrs. Ruby McCollum. One was written by an individual who said he lived in the area; but what he did not say was that he was hardly out of diapers at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.174.62.98 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 22 November 2014 (UTC) This is C. Arthur Ellis, Jr., Ph.D., the person this commentator states was "barely out of diapers." He is indeed sorely wrong and needs to have his facts straight. In spite of his assaults, I have never exonerated Ruby McCollum, and agree that she was a dope addict. What I disagree with is that she shot Dr. Adams over drugs. She shot him because he would not abort her second child by him. The arrogance of this writer is amazing, and I don't know of any research that he has done, or anything that he has written other than this post. He lists himself as having a B.A., but I am really am puzzled about how this qualifies him for much of anything, other than being a critic about something of which he has little to no knowledge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.85.122.230 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 12 December 2015 (UTC) The others were written by representatives of a northern newspaper who had a total bias against the south as a whole. There are facts not told, that I can reveal, because I was there when it happened; a young boy, but definitely beyond the diaper stage and old enough to remember what I saw and heard.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.174.62.98 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 22 November 2014 (UTC) Ruby McCollum who murdered Doctor Leroy Adams in Live Oak, Florida was at the time a heavy heroin addict and her husband Sam was a friend of both Dr. Adams, Sherriff Sim P. Howell and his staff. He was NOT , however, a friend of the Live Oak City Police Department, because it was truly a corrupt department, often demanded bribes and its Chief was drunk most of the time. No one in Live Oak at the time had much dealings with the City Police Department; they always went to the Suwannee County Sherriffs office in the courthouse for assistance. "Bolita" Sam, who was out of town on business at the time, knew of Ruby's addiction and had asked (and paid) Dr. Adams to get Ruby off the drugs. So Dr. Adams, in the guise of giving Ruby heroin shots, instead gave her shots of sterile water. Eventually Ruby discovered what he was doing and was infuriated. On the day in question Ruby went to Dr. Adams office for her shot and afterwards paid him with a $100 bill. When he turned around to the cash register in the office to make change and give her back the balance of her money, Ruby took a small pistol out of her purse and shot him in the back; killing him. She then calmly drove home. Word was immediately sent out to the Suwannee County Sherriff's office and Sherriff Sim P. Howell and Chief Deputy James F. Gray went to the McCollum home to interview Ruby. The Chief of Police was already there and told Sherriff Howell and Deputy Gray that Ruby didn't do it. Deputy Gray told Sherriff Howell to wait a minute while he talked to Ruby, and went inside to see her. Entering the bathroom with her for more privacy, Deputy Gray asked Ruby, "Ruby, what did you do with the gun?" Ruby asked Deputy Gray, knowing he was a friend and confident of her husband, "Will you take care of this with Sam?" and Deputy Gray agreed to contact Sam at once and protect her until he returned home. Ruby then led him out of the bathroom, into her bedroom and over to the window and pointed down, saying, "I threw it there in the bamboo". Wherein Deputy Gray and Sherriff Howell went to the stand of bamboo and found her gun; and she was arrested by the Sherriff; not by the City Police Department, even though it had occurred in the city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.174.62.98 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 22 November 2014 (UTC) Ellis here again. What Deputy Gray's son omits is that Ruby McCollum addresses that his father was on her payroll. He cannot accept his father's corruption. This is documented in the trial testimony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.85.122.230 (talk • contribs) 23:30, 12 December 2015 (UTC) I know this to be true because I was a passenger in Deputy Gray's car that day when he got the call and went directly to the McCollum home. I was told to "Stay in the car"; but of course being a boy, I didn't listen and followed him into the house; after all, he was my father. Ruby DID NOT shoot Dr. Adams over an argument about her bill; but because she was and had "long" been a dope addict, to her husband’s displeasure, and was as she put it "mad as hell" over what he had done at her husbands request. All that has been written about Ruby McCollum, making her out to be a saint and a victim is pure crap and outright lies as is the trash spewed out against the Suwannee County Sheriff’s Department. Everyone knew Sam McCollum was the biggest "bolito" man in Florida, and that Ruby, his wife, was a practicing heroin addict and worse and had been for a very long time. Had it not been for Sherriff Sim P. Howell and Deputy James F, Gray protecting Ruby until she could be transferred out of town for her own safety, she would not have live out the day. {{subst:unsiged2|00:18, 22 November 2014‎ |58.174.62.98}} Ellis here again. The son of Deputy of Gray wants it that his father and the sheriff's department save McCollum's live out of altruism. In fact, they fear for their reputations and being revealed for accepting brnbes. The Live Oak City Police Department at the time did little to nothing to assist in what transpired. Everyone wanted Ruby McCollum dead. Ruby McCollum was guilty of premeditated murder and had she been a man she would have been executed; instead she was committed to an asylum, and then released. Money bought Ruby McCollum and kept her from being justly executed. It is a shame the authors of the books in question choose to praise a herion addict and murderer and slander the names of honest law officers. The authors and their books are a disgrace to the people of Live Oak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.174.62.98 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 22 November 2014 (UTC) C. Arthur Ellis, Jr. here again. This Gray person who wrote this article is, I believe, the son of Deputy Gray, who was bribed by the McCollums. He at first acknowledges the corruption of the police and then states that there were "honest law officers." He can't have it both ways. The fact is that his father and most of Live Oak's law enforcement was on the McCollum payroll. And I, for one, have never declared that McCollum was an innocent victim. I might also point out that Adams' assisted McCollum in being an addict, so this man is blaming the victim and praising his corrupt father, who accepted bribes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.85.122.230 (talk) 04:25, 13 December 2015 (UTC) James Mason Gray BA, Univ. of South Florida College of business 30 year Florida Florida historical researcher and author 75 years of age, retired

Contradiction

I have added a "Contradict" tag, as the article claims at the beginning that Blacks could vote in America, but not serve on juries, yet claims in the "Background" section, and again in the "First Trial" section, that Blacks could not serve on juries because they couldn't vote. There are also no sources for any of these claims: That Blacks could vote, could not vote, or that they couldn't serve on juries. Harry Sibelius (talk) 04:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

C. Arthur Ellis, Jr. here. Black people could vote at the time of the trial as well as serve on the jury. There were two black alternate jurors. This is not to say that there was not voter intimidation as well as fear of the KKK at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.253.255.249 (talk) 14:23, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

This article, "Florida's History of Suppressing Blacks' Votes" (https://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/floridas-history-of-suppressing-blacks-votes/2146546/) is a summary of the Black voting in the postwar period when this trial took place. Yes, Black men were nominally legally able to vote, but the many discriminatory barriers meant that only a small percentage of Blacks did succeed in voting. Jurors are drawn from voter lists. Therefore, if someone can't vote, they can't serve on juries. It is still the case that attorneys try to choose juries that they believe will be favorable to their clients through the use of challenges in voir dire. Often in the segregated South, attorneys used multiple challenges to keep blacks off juries. There are numerous sources on these issues and I will look for more. Parkwells (talk) 18:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I think it is accurate to describe the differences less as contradictions than as the need to clarify there were legal rights for blacks on paper in terms of voting that were severely limited by discriminatory practices of the time. Parkwells (talk) 20:11, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

C. Arthur Ellis, Jr., Ph.D., Artellis1000, 72.187.21.116, 69.85.122.230, and Ellis' book

I noticed that some of the edits to this page were made by 72.187.21.116. This user seems to have also identified himself as C. Arthur Ellis, Jr., Ph.D., who has previously identified himself on this talk-page as 69.85.122.230, as well as Artellis1000. Writing about an edit of the Ruby McCollum article on 00:10, 07 February 2008, that: "I have removed portions of this page that were contributed by me since I am not allowed to list my book as a reference. You may not repost my contribution without giving credit to my work," referring to the works by Ellis cited in this article.

Though I may be mistaken, It seems that Mr. Ellis removed sources that he previously had added that used his own books. This is commendable, at least in that I believe it accords Wikipedia's rules. I was hoping, however, that since Mr. Ellis is active on Wikipedia, and his book is still used as a source in the Ruby McCollum article, that he would have some additional sources to back up certain claims in this article. Harry Sibelius (talk) 07:55, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

I also believe there need to be sources other than Ellis's, and commentary, if we can find any, other than his about his own writing. So I moved listing of Ellis's two non-fiction books and his historical novel to a category of "Further reading". According to Wiki MOS, a self-published book is not supposed to be considered a Reliable Source unless that can be established. There are no reviews cited for any of the Ellis books (I will look further for some.) I will also look at reviews of documentaries, and articles that might give us some basis for proceeding. I deleted an Ellis reference to crediting Zora Neale Hurston for noting "paramour rights" because the citation was to Ellis's historical novel. Novels are definitely not sources for factual material such as this content. I have tried to reduce the editorial comments that Ellis made in describing his own books. Now I'll search for more facts.Parkwells (talk) 20:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)