Talk:Rudolf Nureyev

Odd POV

Isn't the following sentence very odd POV:

"Not long after, for disciplinary reasons, he was told he would not be allowed to go abroad again. He was condemned to tours of the Russian provinces."

I'm no expert in Nureyev, but if no one objects I'll remove it Paradiso 08:28, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In what sense is it POV? Adam 09:59, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

OOPS - Sorry that is the wrong quote, this is the line I mean:

"In retrospect it seems obvious that his personal problems were mainly due to internal conflict over his sexuality."

How do we know its true? Paradiso 11:50, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It was obvious to everyone who knew him, and it is also obvious to anyone who is gay. Adam 13:02, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

To consider this type of judgment about the internal motivations of a historical figure as an obvious conclusion for all gay people and not to anyone else is definitely problematic. If it is the opinion solely of the gay community, then it is POV, but could be stated in the article as such. And if there were in fact people who knew him who claimed that this was what was bothering him, then that should stated in the article, because that would be important and add interesting insights. I don’t know of any. If someone can find a way to support this statement, then lets add the supporting info. Did Nureyev speak about what was bothering him at this time in his life? Paradiso 14:31, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

How could he defectin 1961 at Charles De Gaulle airport when this airport was only open in 1974??

Authenticity check: A search reveals that the phrase "regarded by many" appears in the text. Is the phrase a symptom of a dubious statement? Could a source be quoted instead? Perhaps the "many" could be identified? Might text be edited to more genuinely reflect specific facts?

Wetman

Category:Austrian ballet dancers

Well, it certainly depends on how defining nationality, but since he became an Austrian citizen I thought it was appropriate to add the Category:Austrian ballet dancers. Gugganij 12:49, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

He lived in Paris most of the time and only became an Austrian citizen a few years before his death, by which time he was almost finished as a dancer, so I don't think he should be classed as an Austrian dancer. In any case his nationality was either Russian or Tartar. Adam 01:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. Gugganij 16:39, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

"Russian born balet dancer" is not appropriate. Rudolf Nureyev was Tatar and regarded himself as Tatar. if the author of the article means Rudolf's place of birth or citizenship (not ethnicity), then Mr. Nureyev was a Soviet born person, as there was no such a country as Russia yet. Robert

I agree this is a complicated question. His mother was Russian, his father was Tatar, he was born in Siberia and raised in Bashkiria. I don't think any nationality can be safely ascribed to him. "Soviet-born" is correct and probably safest. Adam 12:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I reckon that an encyclopedia should not make such mistakes and should evade using colloquialisms. Russia appeared only in 1991. Between 1922 – 1991 there was USSR not Russia. The following sentences should be amended accordingly.

1. “Within two years Nureyev was one of Russia's best-known dancers”. – USSR’s 2. “He was condemned to tours of the Russian provinces” – Soviet provinces. He could not go to Turkmen Soviet Republic either. 3. “He did not see Russia again until 1989” - USSR 4. “…and his first visit back to Russia was to see his dying mother …” – USSR

Can you please provide me with the links to support your words “His mother was Ethnic Russian”? To my knowledge both of his parents were Tatars. His mother’s name was Farida which is a very common name among Tatars. Russians do not use Muslim or Turkic names, and Farida is either of the two. Following are the links to some trustworthy websites which directly or indirectly say that Rudolf’s mother was Tatar too. Encyclopedia of World Biography http://www.notablebiographies.com/Ni-Pe/Nureyev-Rudolf.html “He was the youngest of the four children of Hamet and Farida Nureyev, who came from Asiatic Mongol ancestry”.

Article: Capturing Nureyev http://www.antiquesandthearts.com/%5C/a2000.asp?a=CoverStory03-19-2002-11-16-28 “..Born of Tatar parents..”

E-book: “The most famous artists of Russia” http://salebook.lgg.ru/files/rv/361812132904.htm#145 Translation: “Nureyev who made Russian ballet famous was not Russian. His mother Farida was a Kazan Tatar woman… Unlike many artists or scientists of those times Rudolf didn’t keep his origin in secret. Vice versa, he was proud of his ethnicity and he really resembled an impetuous and self-willed descendent of Genghis-Khan as people tended to call him. His ballet-school mates say that on occasions he would emphasise that his ancestors ruled Russians during 300 years”.

Robert, Australia

»Nureyev was born in a train near Irkutsk, while his ethnic *Russian mother* was travelling across Siberia to Vladivostok« ?????

His mother's name is *Färidä*, his father's name is *Xämit*. It's typical Muslim name. It's not russian name! Typical russian names: Natasha, Masha, Dasha, Sasha, Glasha, ...

The general point is very correct. However, what's with that ridiculous statement about the Russian names? They actually are Natalia, Maria, Daria, Alexandra, and Clavdia. One could very well call Farida "Farisha". --Humanophage (talk) 12:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Rudolf Nureyev Foundation Official Website http://www.nureyev.org/biography/biographie_jeunesse.php Quote: "The family were Tartars, coming of peasant stock in the Soviet republic of Bashkir". Adam, what else do you need? Robert

His mother's name is Farida.

Farida Ahliulla kyzy (Ahliullovna) Idrisova (in tatar - Фәридә Әһлиулла кызы Идрисова - first name, patronymic and last name, in the context of the region - purely Tatar/Bashkir), was born in the village of Tatar Tyugulbaevo (a village with a Tatar population), she received her education in the Tatar madrasah in Kazan. With references to archival data, this was published only in the biography of 2007, but it was never a secret. Where did the story about the Rudolf Nureyev's mother is etnic-Russian come from? It's a mystery.Тангичи (talk) 10:53, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Category:Tatars vs. Category:Tatar people

I have taken the liberty of removing Nureyev from the former category; to list him (or anybody) in both is redundant, and as Category:Tatar people is itself a category within Category:Tatars it is the category under which he (and all other Tatars) belong.

Some Wikipedian committed to Tatar affairs might care to move any other Tatars from Category Tatars to Category Tatar people; I have other, not necessarily bigger, fish to fry.

I returned the previous category, since the category "Tatars" no longer exists.Тангичи (talk) 11:00, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Homosexuality

Most people seem to have this illusion that Nureyev "leaped to freedom" in order to have so-called "artistic freedom" in the west, when in all actuality if he remained in Russia he would have been sent to prison, etc. for his sexuality, and whether people like this or not it is the truth.

A user named Derek Parker put in the following edit, which is wholly inaccurate -

"The fact that he was by then a known homosexual was not, as has been suggested, relevent; the KGB winked at homosexual artists who were considered valuable to the State."

If Nureyev was valueable to the state then why would the KGB want to send him back to Russia during the Kirov's tour in Paris?

I dont known where on earth he got this idea, but that is simple NOT true. In light of this, I reverted back to an older edit. Mrlopez2681 19:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Homosexual men do have political opinions. Furthermore, if he was valuable to the state, that is EXACTLY why the KGB would want to send him back to Russia. He is a valuable asset as a Soviet dancer; as a defector he would be a prominent liability -- irrelevant of sexuality or politics. I also question the accuracy of your statements on Soviet history70.239.95.34 05:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

This is all uncited and certainly not factual. If it's factual, cite it. 71.185.192.226 04:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I wonder also if it would not be more appropriate to call him bisexual, since he was know to have had sexual relationships with women as well as men (http://www.nysun.com/article/61345). --Minerva9 07:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

No, he was a homosexual, but as per usual wikipedia -lacking prof. editors and being populated by mostly imbecililles- has failed to adress even that. 94.71.140.168 (talk) 22:29, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

He was more gay, then bi, but occasional took female lovers, it is a well known fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.91.180.94 (talk) 09:04, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Nureyev was bisexual, and despite how being bisexual or gay was technically illegal in the USSR/CCCP, there were many bisexual and gay men who were open or basically out for the time as being bisexual or gay-Tchaikovsky was one-in the arts and ordinary citizens who lived openly as bisexual and gay men and they were not imprisoned, sent to GULAG, or executed.100.34.201.47 (talk) 22:47, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Tchaikovsky - this is the time of the Russian Empire (however, there was also criminal prosecution for manifesting a sexual orientation different from the normative one). There were different periods in the USSR - in the 1920s the minister (people's commissar) could be openly gay (like Chicherin). But in the days of Nuriev, open homosexuality could be the reason for state to puting human to prison. However, I do not sure that this was the reason for the migration - in most Western countries at that time the situation was still similar.Тангичи (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Needs format changed

Nureyev's choreographies

LA BAYADERE ACTE III - 3 october 1974 - After Petipa

MANFRED - 20 november 1979 - Original choreography

DON QUICHOTTE - 6 march 1981 - After Petipa

RAYMONDA - 5 november 1983 - After Petipa

LE LAC DES CYGNES - 20 december 1984 - After Sergueev and Bourmeister

ROMEO ET JULIETTE - 19 october 1984 - Original choreography

THE TEMPEST - 9 march 1984 - Original choreography

BACH SUITE - 16 april 1984 - Avec Francine Lancelot

CASSE NOISETTE - 20 december 1985 - After Petipa

WASHINGTON SQUARE - 25 june 1985 - Original choreography

CENDRILLON - 24 october 1986 - Original choreography

LA BELLE AU BOIS DORMANT - 18 march 1989 - After Petipa

LA BAYADERE - 8 october 1992 - After Petipa

NPOV

While i can't claim to be any expert or even some one who knows much about this chap and only came to this page after reading a review about the new biography on Rudolf Nureyev by Julie Kavanagh. The review in "The Sunday Times" (UK), paints a totally different picture of what Rudolf was like. As far going on to use the phrase the Beast within the Beauty. I honestly think some of Julie's work needs to be taken into account into as it seems to contradict what has been written about him here, in particular his personality. as an example i read in the wikipedia article he was known to be a generous and loyal friend while the review says "he was shamelessly exploitative, using people as stepping stones and then discarding them" and "towards inferiors he was violent and foul mouthed, berating waiters, throwing food around...Anti-semitic obscenities were his specility". sounds quite different to what has been written here. and i can't say its a piece of work that should be dismissed as she spent 10 years reaserching it. anyways thats my two cents Philbentley 16:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

There can be multiple viewpoints and personality and style variations can vary greatly depending on who is asking, what they are asking and of whom. Benjiboi 14:56, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Tone

The article had the tone of a scandal drahamah-filled fan page with much unfootnoted analysis. I have made a first pass to chop out some of the worst offenses, but it could use someone to clean up after me. Many of the items could probably be returned, if properly sourced. TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 11:40, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Just recently I was listening to someone on radio criticising wiki biographies, that they frequently sounded like they had been writen by the subjects PR agency. Can't say what was here a year ago, but this seems a little lacking in his personal life and relationships. Sandpiper (talk) 23:23, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

For example, it would seem Robert Tracy, lover and then secretary for 13 years, ought to have a mention. Tracy says Nureyev said that he had slept with three female lovers, two of whom became pregnant.[1] Sandpiper (talk) 00:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Pushkin

The mention of Alexander Pushkin may be misleading for some, especially given the wording. I wasn't able to find anything on Nureyev's Pushkin even in ruwiki, the only other two Alexanders listed there are the poet's son and grandson. Bansp (talk) 23:24, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Early life and career at the Kirov

No mention of the guy he was sending letters back and forth to? He even sent the guy some nude photos of himself. He was a fellow ballet dancer, as I recall. And yes, it is relevant, whether you like it or not. --98.232.178.38 (talk) 04:39, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Call for expansion

This article seems to focus on the sensationalist and celebrity aspects of Nureyev's life, somewhat at the expense of his dance style and innovation. It is mentioned that he pioneered, or at least expanded, the integration of modern dance into the classical ballet oeuvre, but there is no associated exposition to corroborate or clarify this. I am not an expert on Nureyev, but I am interested in the subject--it would be appreciated if someone with ballet expertise expanded the section on his professional dance career and style, for which he is arguably most reknowned.

Alanrobts (talk) 13:46, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Sexuality

Hello and please forgive me I'm sure I'm doing a bunch of things wrong. It took me forever to find the talk page. I'm sorry I didn't post here before editing. A person changed Nureyev's sexuality from homosexual to bisexual and cited that it's because he had relationships with women in his youth. It is widely accepted that Nureyev is gay. I feel like there is constantly an attempt to erase homosexual people, and I've seen it on wikipedia often enough and finally had enough at this one. My opinion is that if neutrality is the goal, leave a definitive statement about his sexuality off his page. I didn't edit it to state that he was gay (although he was), I edited it to take out an untrue and not backed up statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fixingstupidlies (talk • contribs) 20:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the claim he's bisexual is/was followed immediately by a citation for that statement (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/10/08/wild-thing-2). Whether it's necessarily correct or not, I don't know, but it is a claim that's backed by a citation of what's generally considered a reliable source. (I will grant, though, that said source doesn't really offer a substantial backing of that assertion.) To quote WP:Verifiability, "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it." I'm not sure the claim, for that reason, should be removed/disputed out of hand, but if other (also reliable) sources make the contrary assertion that Nureyev was strictly homosexual, those can be included as well. I think it's probably a reasonable compromise to just say that opinions differ, and provide sources thereof. - Vianello (Talk) 05:06, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Does labelling Nureyev as homosexual or bisexual really matter? I mean, if he said it himself that would be a different thing but as far as I know I don't think he did (correct me?). Straight people don't normally label themselves as heterosexual, and when they do that's because there's a LGBTQ person in the room, so labelling a person, especially a famous one, as gay or bi or whatever seems to just sensationalize them; their sexuality isn't valued for being a part of their unique humanity, instead it's just an attention-grabber because basically all they are is their sexuality. It's just that in mainstream tv shows a person labelled as gay or having homosexual characteristics is often the guy who provides comic relief; on TV a person who's gay automatically gets a laugh from the audience just for being gay but a show would never make fun of heterosexuality (correct me?). Being gay is seen as different and is therefore easily sensationalized. Maybe instead of saying gay "attracted to men" or "likes guys" could be said instead. Being gay just seems too general and most of the time has associations like "feminine" and stuff with it; general labels don't work on individuals.

Someone mentioned that calling gay people bi is erasing homosexual identity but I think that as a general, collective form of identification it does seem to nullify its aims; heterosexual identity is almost never talked about due to how ingrained it is, I mean when's the last time anyone ever heard of a straight person being ashamed of his sexuality or having to come out? Normalizing homosexuality might mean just not making as big a deal of it. Even Pride marches and stuff like that seem to celebrate homosexuality itself rather than the struggle of homosexuals; straight people rarely celebrate being straight.

TL;DR calling a person gay is too general a term for individuals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.105.145.231 (talk) 04:32, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Robert Tracy

I'm sorry, there is a new information about Mr. Robert Tracy, that Nureyev and he met in 1973, actually they met in 1978. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.91.180.94 (talk) 09:07, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

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The 2019 film The White Crow directed by Ralph Fiennes

the long paragraph on the film, along with some editorial comment, is inappropriate. This could be put in a new article on the film itself. The film is based on an earlier documentary and the Julie Kavanagh book. TGcoa (talk) 23:28, 29 June 2019 (UTC)