Talk:Rufous-chested dotterel

Requested move 20 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Per consensus. – robertsky (talk) 12:49, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

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Rufous-chested plover → Rufous-chested dotterel – IOC 14.1 ——🦝 The Interaccoonale ^{Will be the raccoon race} _{(talk・contribs)} 13:06, 20 December 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 22:09, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• Comment @Interaccoonale: you need to show that this is the common name. YorkshireExpat (talk) 19:21, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

  IOC 14.1 uses this name: https://www.worldbirdnames.org/IOC_Names_File_Plus-14.1_red.xlsx ——🦝 The Interaccoonale ^{Will be the raccoon race} _{(talk・contribs)} 04:02, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

  That's not the same thing. Please see WP:COMMONNAME. YorkshireExpat (talk) 09:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not sure this one article is the place to object to Wikipedia's practice of using IOC vernacular names for the titles of articles about bird species. But I am also not convinced that IOC vernacular names are necessarily WP:COMMONNAMEs. The COMMONNAME for Eudromias morinellus might be dotterel, not Eurasian dotterel. Dotterel (disambiguation) describes the species listed there as "plovers". Plover (Charadriinae) includes species with dotterel in the name. A COMMONNAME is not something that changes instantaneously based on new knowledge about the relationships between species. An IOC vernacular can change (more or less) instantaneously.

  Google reports 18,000 results for "Rufous-chested plover" and 16,700 for "Rufous-chested dotterel". Google reports 10,100 results for "Charadrius modestus"+plover and 5,270 for "Charadrius modestus"+dotterel. Google reports 1,330 for "Zonibyx modestus"+dotterel and 838 for ""Zonibyx modestus"+plover. Going by reported Google results has problems, but it might the case that the COMMONNAMENOTTHESCIENTIFICNAME for Z. modestus includes dotterel and the NOTTHESCIENTIFICNAME for C. modestus includes plover. Plantdrew (talk) 17:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

  So according to Wikipedia:WikiProject Birds Wikipedia bird article titles may diverge from the IOC list when the most common name in reliable sources is different from the IOC name. I'm neutral on this, just need a bit more info. If the vernacular is contested the best thing to do may be to use the scientific name for the title, with appropriate redirects. YorkshireExpat (talk) 17:50, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

  In fact I totally agree with using scientific names as titles. While we need a consensus. ——🦝 The Interaccoonale ^{Will be the raccoon race} _{(talk・contribs)} 13:03, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

"Rufous-chested Dotterel" used by: IOC 14.1, Clements v2023, H&M 4.1, and SACC 20231126.

Only HBW still uses 'plover'

So let's rename to Rufous-chested Dotterel - Kweetal nl (talk) 13:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support move per IOC 14.1 and Clements 2023. The name "dotterel" reflects the recently established phylogeny and has been adopted by the leading groups of ornithologists. - Aa77zz (talk) 11:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
• Support move for previously given reasons. Geekgecko (talk) 16:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.