Talk:Ruscism/Archive 5

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Solzhenitsyn

I think this new section is rather problematic. While this writer did express a number of nationalistic, possibly even imperialistic and xenophobic views (not in his best books), just as many other writers in Russia, there are several issues: (a) there is zero evidence that he or his works influenced any current politics in Russia (this is a pure speculation at best), (b) he is mostly known for his books about Gulag, i.e. he is mostly known for his opposition to political oppression in Russia, (c) he never supported fascists or Nazi, being himself a military veteran of the war against Nazi, even though Soviet/KGB propaganda did make such claims to discredit him. My very best wishes (talk) 14:42, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41061849 - Aristophile (talk) 15:18, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and that could be used on a page about him. But there were thousands and thousands public figures who supported Putin and his politics in some way. Consider those, for example, who are included to the list of international sanctions (S. is not one of them). Should all of them appear on this page? Some - yes, probably, like Dugin, but he did openly express some fascist views (and none of the a,b,c above would be applicable to him). Well, what exactly would you suggest? Just to restore or make another version? My very best wishes (talk) 15:46, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Restore and improve, IMO. Solzhenitsyn's contribution to the current situation is pretty axiomatic, differing opinions notwithstandidng. --Aristophile (talk) 16:31, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

I disagree. Simply looking the best accessible ref [1] (yours is under paywall), it says: "Solzhenitsyn criticizes the Soviet ambition to impose Russian domination over non-Russian nations, saying it "would destroy the Russian national essence." Further, Russia does not have enough strength to control an empire, he writes, and trying to do so will only "hasten our destruction.". He did advocate for the peaceful unification of Ukraine and Russia, but never advocated genocide of Ukrainians, as is happening during this war. His views maybe nationalist and anti-Western, but not fascist. My very best wishes (talk) 17:20, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Read this - https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/02/vladimir-putin-guru-solzhenitsyn-115088/ --Aristophile (talk) 18:49, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/03/russia.ukraine - that's pretty insensitive. --Aristophile (talk) 18:52, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

"Insensitive" - yes, sure. What do we have here?

1. The conclusion by Luke Harding (great author!): His [Solzhenitsyn's] later statements have demonstrated an increasingly nationalist anti-western tone, and he appears to be a fan of President Vladimir Putin, who gave him a literary award last summer. Yes, this is all true.
2. Another article: A passionate patriot as well as a champion of free speech, Solzhenitsyn left a rich, diverse, and controversial legacy. Putin chooses to follow only those ideas that fit his neo-imperialist and reactionary agenda, and naturally they don’t usually include the free-speech part. Yes, that's a reasonable opinion.
3. In December 2014, Putin quoted Solzhenitsyn as saying: "..." This should be dismissed as another lie by Putin, unless reliably sourced as actual words by S. When and where did S. say this?
4. In his 1990 essay, written on the eve of the fall of the Soviet Union, Solzhenitsyn suggested that Russia abandon its global agenda and focus, instead, on its internal problems. He called for the immediate separation of Russia from the Soviet Union - Is not it an anti-imperialist view by S? ”He accepted the potential future independence of Ukraine but added: “The area is very heterogenous indeed, and only the local population can determine the fate of a particular locality” This is something reasonable, but we know that Putin did not follow his advice: he did not conduct a fair referendum in Crimea or anywhere during this war.
5. It seems that S. (he died in 2008) has predicted that Russia/Putin will attack the West and this "may well bury Western civilization forever.” But he never advocated for nullifying human rights in Russia or anywhere (see above about free-speech) or for complete military occupation of Ukraine, unless I am mistaken. The ongoing war and genocide would be his worst nightmares coming true.

In summary, I do not see any way to describe his views or influence as fascist, and none of the sources above does it. My very best wishes (talk) 21:36, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Only this single ref connects S with the subject of this page, but the subject is defined differently in the article, i.e. the novel term ‘rashism’ (рашизм) rapidly coalesced for referring to and negatively assessing the mixed-bag fascist-inflected ideology of neo-imperialism that the Kremlin deploys for justifying and promoting its actions. If we consider the subject of this page merely as new Russian neo-imperialism, then yes, more content, possibly even S., can be included. My very best wishes (talk) 21:58, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

But again, the subject of this page is presumably neo-fascism (e.g. per Snyder), rather than just neo-imperialism, which is a different thing. Therefore, not Solzehitsyn - simply because none of the cited sources describes his as a fascist - this term has specific meaning. My very best wishes (talk) 23:10, 27 February 2023 (UTC)