Talk:Russian oligarchs

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"Russian Oligarchs"

Aren't we stating an opinion when we say that "Russian oligarchs" are business oligarchs? We never say this about the Koch Brothers. - Chris.sherlock (talk) 00:42, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Thats because you do not understand the differance between FREE market and Goverment give away (a market for the few i.e Oliagrach). How you doing with Putin ? 2600:6C4E:B7F:53F4:19E6:D424:DF8A:56F (talk) 02:04, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

You are right, the western oligarchs are not any different and meet the definition well. I tend to speak of Colluding Class.

Bill Browder sheda a light on how they got hold of the companies. They had financiers organised so they could bid at the voucher auctions, which were partly rigged. He writes of roads blocked by burning tyres, and airport closures so the 'right' ones would get the companies at the right price. A German I once knew, Karsten Schlamelcher, went around Russia with a suitcase of cash buying up vouchers for peanuts.

Most oligarchs I have looked at do not own the companies outright. They are usually co-owners with the state, but I have to study a bit more thoroughly. This is the point of contention with the west; government must not be owners. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:80D4:69B9:131D:5E09 (talk) 03:52, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

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Not oligarchs

Oligarch by definition is the large business owner, who explicitly controls media outlets as well as political parties. Or shorter, large capital with media and political influence. A prime example is Gusinsky, who controlled NTV channel and directly white-washed the islamists, leading to subsequent conflict with state (Putin). By definition oligarchy ceased to exist in Russia around 2010, there was some kind of law, which prohibited them messing with politics. 85.197.11.179 (talk) 21:11, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

We go by reliable sources. And I think reliable sources still use the term "Russian oligarch". –Novem Linguae (talk) 23:34, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Referring to Kirill Dmitriev as an oligarch

Referring to Kirill Dmitriev as an oligarch is factually untrue, so his mentioning in the article is irrelevant. Dmitriev is not an “oligarch” and there is no basis whatsoever to apply this term to him. Dmitriev has never been characterized as an “oligarch” by any Western government (including the UK and the US). Even the relevant restrictive measures recently imposed by said governments refer to Dmitriev’s role as the leader of a Russian government-owned entity, RDIF, as the sole basis for such imposition and contain no mention of him being an “oligarch”. On March 14, 2022 the article by Financial Times, which mistakenly characterised Dmitriev as an oligarch, has been corrected accordingly (“Clarification: this article has been revised, since the original version described Kirill Dmitriev as an oligarch”). Please see the correction here: https://www.ft.com/content/2816fa54-6dc7-417c-bb99-a0bc9493fe2d). The same correction has been made by La Stampa: https://www.lastampa.it/esteri/2022/03/20/news/il_mistero_degli_aiuti_russi_nell_italia_in_pieno_lockdown-2877428/

Furthermore, the corresponding link number 65 (Forbes article) to the statement “The closest friend of President Putin’s daughter Kirill Dmitriev has become a billionaire by investing in Russian technology and agri-processing companies, while receiving state subsidies for their R&D activities” provides no evidence that Dmitriev is factually a billionaire and has accumulated his wealth by any unlawful type of activity and by receiving any state subsidies as written above. The Forbes article describes the investment activity of RDIF, not Kirill Dmitriev himself who is just an appointed head of a government-controlled entity, so RDIF activities do not refer to him directly. 2A02:C7F:DCAC:D00:945E:8043:A4D0:11BB (talk) 14:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

I just went through Russian_oligarchs#Putin Era, 2022 Invasion of Ukraine and Western sanctions. It looks like none of the listed officials and their family members are actually called oligarchs in the referenced sources. For some, similarly to Dmitriev, there isn't even a clear sourcing to indicate they they're rich or yield any meaningful influence. PaulT2022 (talk) 22:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Unexplained removal of references to VNIISI

Not sure what was the reason for removing VNIISI mentions? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_oligarchs&diff=prev&oldid=1136157984 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_oligarchs&diff=prev&oldid=1136157734 Both Yanik and Aven himself describe that Gaidar and Aven worked together in the same research lab. Yanik also describes wider influence of VNIISI alumni on the emergence of market economy.

Omitting this part of Gaidar's biography - described in two published books on emergence of oligarchs - makes it completely unclear why is he mentioned at all. PaulT2022 (talk) 22:13, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Not sure at what point mentions of Aven's background present before were removed; the nature of comments of the IPs' edits makes it impossible to trace what was changed and why. PaulT2022 (talk) 22:18, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, the removed pre-existing personal connections of Berezovsky, Gaidar and other oligarchs and reformers, arguably imperfectly sourced in the removed material, are described in other sources; for example, p.75 and p.85 in Klebnikov. PaulT2022 (talk) 22:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Antisemitism Concern

Recommend we revisit the list of examples of Russian oligarchs displayed along the right side of the page. Out of the 9 displayed, only two are non-jews. This could be problematic and lead to antisemitic accusations of overrepresentation. At least according to what I can bring up at hand, roughly 0.1% of the Russian population is jewish, but 7 out of the 9 oligarchs indicated on this page are? True as those oligarchs may be, countering antisemitism proactively may be a good route here, regardless of how the facts shake out. 198.162.78.5 (talk) 18:25, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

What do you suggest? — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 18:25, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Not too sure what to suggest, perhaps there's a way we could look at a full list of people who, over the course of history, fall or fell under the definition this page provides. Surely we would see a more appropriate representation? 198.162.78.5 (talk) 18:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I support specifying a source of each list of oligarchs presented on the page. (Either inline or in a footnote.) There must be either a single source or clear inclusion criteria for each list per WP:SOURCELIST.

The specific list of nine is mostly based on Berezovsky's claims (amplified by secondary sources) on who owns Russian economy, see Semibankirschina for its roots. It's conceivable that he might have overrepresented Jewish oligarchs.

It's also worth noting that Jews were overrepresented amongst early Russian oligarchs, but not to the extent a reader might conclude from this list. PaulT2022 (talk) 19:04, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

User:Fotis_A., what were the inclusion criteria for the collage? PaulT2022 (talk) 19:41, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I randomly chose the specific oligarchs. They have nothing to do with anti-Semitism. Fotis A. (talk) 20:01, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Is Doronin an oligarch or not? Sources say he is.

I already posted this question on Vladislav Doronin talk page. But perhaps there will be a more wide-ranging discussion here.

There are several reliable sources that mention Doronin as an oligarch: NYT, Newsweek, The Guardian etc.

Despite the fact that Doronin sued the newspapers over the term oligarch, he did not win the trial. He just terrified the newspapers with huge legal costs.

Indirect facts, which of course we will not cite as reliable sources, but we are talking about WP:IAR (Letter and spirit of the law). Doronin is a member of the Russian president's inner circle, and even outside facts demonstrate to this: his girlfriend Naomi - surprisingly easy to interview Putin. Doronin has helped with a lot of festivals, invites celebrities (including DiCaprio) for him. Not to mention his close ties with the Kremlin and the Moscow mayor's office.

Kremlin critic Bill Browder  who knows very well how oligarchic capital is earned there - very much surprised: when Doronin sued over it. DrDavidLivesey (talk) 22:00, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Plural title?

To my understanding of WP:PLURAL, shouldn't the title be "Russian oligarch"? The singular "Russian oligarch" is said all the time, so it's not like it's an exclusively plural term toobigtokale (talk) 12:51, 20 August 2023 (UTC)