Talk:Rutherford B. Hayes/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Possible inaccuracy or vandalism

In the family section - it seems unlikely that Amanda Leigh Hayes, if she exists at all, was born in 1996. 82.45.125.60 (talk) 12:51, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Edit to revert vandalism

I was just casually perusing by and noticed that poor RBH had his article replaced with some coarse language. I reverted the page to it's last sensible looking version, I haven't inspected it much more than that, so their may be lingering pre-vandalism somewhere in the text.

Jfredett (talk) 02:32, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Religion

This article would appear to contradict itself. In the info box, in the religion section, Hayes is said to have "no affiliation". Yet he is in the category "Methodists". Isn't that an affiliation? Bhumiya (said/done) 08:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and changed it. Bhumiya (said/done) 08:40, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

• In his 1890 May 17 diary entry, he states: "I am not a subscriber to any creed. I belong to no Church. But in a sense satisfactory to myself, and believed by me to be important, I try to be a Christian and to help do Christian work." (page 435)
• Where is evidence he was Methodist? --JimWae 04:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• also see http://www.adherents.com/people/ph/Rutherford_B_Hayes.html --JimWae 04:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• so he was enrolled at Norwalk Academy, a really cool Methodist school in Ohio, in the spring of 1836 as a kid, & his wife was deeply religious & advocated Temperance (so likely a Methodist) & he likely attended church with her - does that merit labelling him a Methodist? - Is this what people care about when they want to know a person's religion? --JimWae 05:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• Which says more about his religious convictions - where he spent some time some Sunday mornings or what he actually said about religion? --JimWae 05:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
• It would seem the more appropriate "fix" would be removal from those 3 categories American Methodists, Methodist politicians, and especially Charismatic religious leaders --JimWae 05:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Paraguay

How come to not talk about his role in paraguayan history? There is a prefecture and city named after him. --- Tonganoxie Jim 24.60.163.16 04:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that more information can be given about Hayes. There is a substancial amount of facts missing

I Agree with you ChesterTheWorm (talk) 00:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC) ChesterTheWorm

Plagiarism

I think a big chunk of this has been plagiarized from the Grolier Encyclopedia... Here's the link: http://ap.grolier.com/article?assetid=0196450-00 .

You're correct. I've removed it but that leaves a hole in the article that I hope others will fill (with honestly contributed material). -Will Beback · † · 01:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. An article on an American President shouldn't have been left in that bad a shape for that long. Old64mb 08:55, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Hayes and McKinley

It was during his command of the 23rd Regiment of the Ohio Volunteer Infantry that Hayes met William McKinley, who would later become the 25th President of the United States. Hayes promoted McKinley twice under his military command, including once for an act of bravery at Antietam. During Hayes' first Ohio gubernatorial race, McKinley engaged in political campaigning and rallying for Hayes' election by "making speeches in the Canton area".<ref>http://www.ohiohistory.org/onlinedoc/ohgovernment/governors/mckinley.html<ref> Later, as Governor of Ohio, Hayes provided political support for his fellow Republican and Ohioian during McKinley's bid for congressional election. Hayes was arguably one of the strongest political supporters underlying McKinley's military and political successes. </nowiki>Shannon bohle (talk) 20:50, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

There was a syntax error. The slash was missing in the second ref markup. AlphaEta 03:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Tidewater Act of 1879

Does anyone know anything the Tidewater Act of 1879? I've searched extensively, but can't seem to locate information about this piece of legislation that Hayes supposedly signed into law. I can't even determine whether or not this was/is a real law. Kindest regards, AlphaEta 15:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Early Life Placement.

Can Someone please fix or adjust the section on his early life. It sits the awkwardly on the page and does not wrap properly around the boxes. I have to admit that my own wiki-knowledge is not good enough yet, being that I have only been a serious editor for less than a month now. I am sure that someone could do it. It just looks terrible when someone tries to read the article. I would try and fix it and I don't wish to experiment on it in an attempt to try and make it look better. --Jojhutton (talk) 19:31, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I moved around a few pictures to try to make the page space out a bit better. Hope that's something along the lines of what you were after. -- PEPSI2786^talk 00:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, it looks much more tidy. Again, I would have tried, but my experiance in this area is limited.--Jojhutton (talk) 00:53, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

"Rutherfraud B. Hayes"

For the next four years, Democrats would refer to Hayes as "Rutherfraud B. Hayes" for his allegedly illegitimate election, as he had lost the popular vote by roughly 250,000 votes.

Was their gripe that he wasn't the popular vote winner or was it because of the contentious and partisan outcome of the Electoral College? The two are very different things. Timrollpickering (talk) 15:42, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Ari Hoogenboom

The entire article on Hayes needs to be expanded using Hoogenboom's biography of Hayes. Very brief and weak compared to other entries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Billyrayakbar2003 (talk • contribs) 20:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Original Internment of the President

I read that the original internment of Hayes was in Oakwood Cemetery, but here it says Riverwood, which is right? --Coingeek (talk) 01:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Semi-Protect

Over the last month I have noticed that this article has been vandalized a number of times, and all by anonymous users, I suggest that the page be semi-protected, at least, to prevent this kind of vandalism again. --Coingeek (talk) 22:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Importance/ Ranking

I was wondering why Hayes hasn't been given an importance ranking. Shouldn't he be at least a High class because he was a president? Also, Hayes has had some serious expansion under presidency, so should we reassess his page to see if it is still C-class? Just wondering. --Schwindtd (talk) 14:51, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Citations

Hey! For everybody working on this page, I am currently working on getting all cites in line with WP:CITE. So don't worry if the cites aren't all exactly in line for right now. Just chill. They will get done. Thanks. Schwindtd (talk) 19:01, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Rutherford B. Hayes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Nikkimaria (talk) 13:47, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this article for potential GA status. My review should be posted shortly. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 13:47, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I'm opting to decline to list this article as GA at this time, as I feel the article's problems are too numerous to warrant promotion. Feel free to renominate whenever the below comments have been addressed. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Writing and formatting

• Don't use contractions in article text  Done
• Can the governorships in the infobox be in chronological order?  Done
• "congress" should be capitalized (and possibly linked)  Done
• Check capitalizations - a lot of words are capitalized that shouldn't be
• The paragraph about his family in "Early life" partially duplicates and partially contradicts the "Family" section  Done
• You say he was wounded 5 times, but the surrounding text only accounts for 4 times - which is correct?  Done
• Avoid one-sentence paragraphs and one-paragraph subsections  Done
• You must include a comma between day and year in month day, year dates
• This article could use a general copy-edit for clarity, flow, and grammar/typo fixes  Done
• Be consistent in the use of African Americans vs African-Americans, white vs White, southerners vs Southerners, etc  Done
• Don't wikilink the same term more than once. Do link terms that non-American readers will likely be unfamiliar with. Link terms on first occurrence.  Done
• Be consistent in referring to Arthur as Chester or Chester A.  Done
• Per WP:CAT, don't include both parent and daughter categories

Accuracy and verifiability

• Ref 5 is a dead link  Done
• Refs should appear immediately after punctuation marks, not before  Done
• Citations needed for the following:

• Following early election results, Hayes actually believed he had lost the election to Democrat Samuel J. Tilden  Done
• By removing federal troops, Hayes gave White Southerners the power to systematically disenfranchise African Americans, creating the Jim Crow South  Done- was reworded
• Close to Hayes throughout his life, Birchard became a father figure to him  Done
• He was an honorary member of Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity  Done
• Hayes provided political support for his fellow Republican and Ohioan during McKinley's bid for congressional election  Done
• had planned to retire from public life, but was drafted by the Republican convention in 1875  Done
• Hayes received national notice for leading a Republican sweep of a previously Democratic Ohio government.  Done
• A dark horse nominee (James G. Blaine had led the previous six ballots) by his convention, Hayes became president after the tumultuous, scandal-ridden years of the Grant administration. He had a reputation for honesty dating back to his Civil War years  Done
• Additionally, historians note, the election was not fair because of the fraud and intimidation perpetrated from both sides. A popular phrase of the day called it an election without "a free ballot and a fair count." For the next four years, Democrats would refer to Hayes as "Rutherfraud B. Hayes" for his allegedly illegitimate election, as he had lost the popular vote by roughly 250,000 votes.  Done
• Bradley was a Republican and the commission voted 8 to 7 – along party lines – to award Hayes all the contested electoral votes.  Done
• This agreement restored local control of the Southern states and ended national control over the state and local governments in former Confederate states  Done-reworded
• Hayes' best known quotation, "He serves his party best who serves his country best,"  Done
• Hayes also could not turn to Northern voters for support; most Northerners were concerned with the economy, not Reconstruction. Under such circumstances "the question Hayes faced was not whether the troops should be removed but when they would be removed," points out Gerald Bahles of the Miller Center of Public Affairs.  Done
• Hayes honestly believed in a kind of paternalistic code where Southern whites would protect the rights of African-Americans if given back control of state governments. Hayes wanted to assimilate African Americans into White society with paternalistic protection by encouraging the growth of Republican Reconstruction ideals in states that were reluctant to enforce civil rights  Done
• closing the book on racial equality for another 100 years

 Done- but do I have to source the 100 years part b/c you can look at Jim Crow and Plessy v. Ferguson to see the 100 years inequality terminated by Brown v. Board of Education

• However, his subsequent attempts to reconcile with his Southern Democrat opposition by handing them prestigious civil service appointments alienated fellow Republicans and undermined his own previous attempts at civil service reform.  Done- was removed
• The stunning victory for the President was made more remarkable by the political climate of the time. Since Andrew Johnson's presidency Congress had asserted more and more power. By standing up to Conkling and his political machine, Hayes had expanded the power of the presidency and paved the way for the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act of 1883 (ironically Chester Arthur would sign the Act into law just 5 years after being sacked).  Done
• Workers feared that the federal government had turned permanently against them, while industrialists feared that such brutal action would spark revolution similar to the European Revolutions of 1848.  Done - was removed
• The economic boom that followed the Panic of 1873 is credited to the return to the Gold standard along with good fortune.  Done
• The Democrats could not overcome Hayes' vetoes and eventually gave up the fight. Their efforts also backfired because Hayes' tenacity had united the Republicans heading into the 1880 elections  Done
• The Argentines hoped that Hayes would give the Gran Chaco region to them; however, he decided in favor of the Paraguayans. His decision made him a hero in Paraguay  Done
• Hayes was suspicious about the French project  Done
• Such action earned Hayes the consternation of many white Americans living on the West Coast  Done- see this site
• Hayes' actions on the border betray a more active presidency than many historians and most Americans realize. Hayes' "police" actions on the border also set a precedent of American intervention along the border and in Mexico  Done- reworded to explain precedent
• his pledge that he would not run for a second term  Done
• Hayes became a model for the post-presidency  Done
• His last words were "I know that I'm going where Lucy is."  Done
• July, 1856. My dear only sister, my beloved Fanny, is dead! The dearest friend of childhood, the affectionate adviser, the confidante of all my life, the one I loved best, is gone; alas! never again to be seen on earth.  Done

Normally you could do shortened citations (as described at WP:CITEX), but in this case I notice that most if not all of the subpages of ref 4 have different URLs than the main page. Thus, though I realize it will likely involve quite a bit of work, I'd suggest that you cite the relevant subpage instead of citing the site as a whole.  Done

• What makes ref 1 a reliable source?  Done
• Per WP:REFNAME, identical refs should be combined (ex: 2 and 7)  Done
• Ref 24 (answers.com) is not a reliable source  Done
• Ref 33: use "pp" for multiple pages  Done
• Ref 34 (about.com) is not a reliable source  Done

• Despite his credentials, I would still argue against using this source

• Ref 40: date? Also, journal name (?) should be italicized  Done
• Don't duplicate cited source in External links (NYTimes obit)  Done

Broad

This section is  Done I'm not an expert on US history of that period, but I don't see anything obviously missing. However, note the concern above about duplicated material re: family.

Neutrality

• Multiple phrasings that should be reworded to be more neutral. Some examples (representative, not exhaustive):

• Hayes became a model for the post-presidency  Done
• Hayes' actions on the border betray a more active presidency than many historians and most Americans realize  Done
• posturing as a moderate  Done

• The phrase's connotations make it not as neutrally worded as it should be - "posturing" usually indicates an exaggerated attitude or "posing", not advocating

• Hayes honestly believed in a kind of paternalistic code  Done

• Look at Wp:W2W and WP:ASF - avoid editorial bias
• Maintain an encyclopedic tone at all times

Stability

Lots of vandalism, but no edit-warring or similar concerns

Images

This section is  Done

• Avoid sandwiching text between two images  Done
• Puck cartoon - what does "left" refer to in the caption? Put the image below the heading to avoid compressing the edit link. The licensing tag for that image is incorrect - the author died in 1937, which is considerably less than 100 years ago  Done

Uh, well since this was published in the US and public domain for US is life + 70 years, this picture is in the public domain. Right? If its published here why does it matter what other countries copyright laws require. It was published HERE. --Schwindtd (talk) 00:48, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

That's fine, you can use the picture, you just have to change the licensing tag to reflect its US PD status. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I uploaded the new one with the different PD tag, but it just shows the old one. What do I do? --Schwindtd (talk) 01:05, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Looks fine to me - did you try reloading the page? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, that post was from a while ago. I put the pic up on Wikimedia commons, then marked the one uploaded here as a duplicate. It was deleted a few days ago. --Schwindtd (talk) 21:47, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

• File:RutherfordLucyHayes.jpg - source link is dead  Done

Protection

Hey, this page gets consistently vandalized. I was wondering if there was some way we could reasonably increase protection. --Schwindtd (talk) 00:12, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Rutherford B. Hayes/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Racepacket (talk) 04:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC) Article needs substantial work to meet GA standards. I am placing it on hold. Seeing no changes, it is failed.

The article links to a disambiguation page: William Allen. Comments are presented below, section by section:

Early life

• "though he had already graduated after the Fraternity Chapter was chartered." - should be "before." Another approach would be to explain that it was in conjucntion with Hayes' sons joining that chapter. I suggest moving this to the Family section, because it did not impact his early life.
• "He was admitted to the bar on May 10, 1845" could be "to the Ohio bar"
• "the partnership in Fremont " - lacks an antecedent
• "of law.In 1856" - spaces

Military service

• "Hayes was also a member of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows (I.O.O.F).[8]" - Sentence is out of place. Perhaps move it to Early Life section, unless you can establish IOOF's relationship to his military service.
• "He proved competent enough at field command that by August 1862, he had been promoted to colonel, receiving command of his original regiment after being wounded in action at the Battle of South Mountain, Maryland, on September 14." Rewrite this run on sentence. Either you are saying that he received command of the 23rd Regiment sometime after September 14, or you have the dates reversed. You imply a causal connection between being wounded and receiving command of the 23rd Regiment.

Hayes and McKinley

Discussion of this topic could be expanded.

• This section distracts from the chronological presentation perhaps move to after campaign for Ohio Governor or integrate into other sections.
• ". The two become fraternal brothers of the Independent Order of Odd Fellows.[8] " Confusing as to time and causation. Either both joined the IOOF and discovering that common fact started their friendship. Or they met first and joined IOOF together. Why is this sentence in the present tense?
• " During Hayes' first Ohio gubernatorial race, McKinley engaged in political campaigning and rallying for Hayes' election by" could be "McKinley worked in Hayes's first gubernatorial campaign by"

Early political career

• "While still in the Shenandoah in 1864," could be "While still serving in the Army in 1864,"

Governor of Ohio

• " because of his stance on Reconstruction, which was the main issue of the general election. " This requires more explanation and is counterintuitive. Explain why Reconstruction is an issue in the Governor's race, rather than being a focus of just Congressional races. Specifically, was the ratification of the Civil War Amendments a campaign issue?

Election of 1876

• "by his convention" could be "by the Republican convention"
• " After his election to the Senate" - need year or date to give a frame of reference.
• "but four states' electoral college votes were contested. " should be "but Republicans had challenged the outcome of votes in three Southern states alleging voter intimidation and fraud. Republican governors in two of those states certified the Republican slate of electors, and the electors of other state were not certified by anyone."
• " After his election to the Senate, Davis resigned his seat on the Court and on the Commission." In general this is not a fair summary of Wikipedia's more detailed article. For example, you might say, "Democrats in Illinois decided to elect Davis to the Senate on the eve of his serving on the Commission. To their surprise, Davis resigned from the both the Court and the Commission to take his Senate seat, leaving only Republican Supreme Court justices to fill his vacancy on the Commission. " Article must explain how or why a Republican was chosen for the tie-breaking position on the Commission.
• Article should explain that the Compromise of 1877 ended the possibility of further fighting by the Congress over the outcome of the election.
• Did the Compromise of 1877 include the funding of internal improvements in the South?

Presidency

• Perhaps add a subheading over the first paragraph of Inauguration.
• change "was rebuilt under primarily Republican state governments." to "was rebuilt under Federal supervison." Federal troops were used to enforce Reconstruction policies, including federal civil rights laws, etc.

Civil service reform

Explain that Hayes was not consistent in applying reform to his own administration, and left that to individual cabinet members. Some departments retained a spoils system.

• "Senators appointed men to government positions in their states." Technically, they didn't appoint. How about "Senators selected who would fill federal positions in their states."
• Explain that Chester Arthur was serving in the Customs House when Hayes fired him, it is implied but not clearly stated.
• Note that the Pendleton bill was signed by Chester Arthur when he became President.

Domestic policy

• "the Panic of 1873" explain, perhaps in a discussion of the campaign or the circumstances leading up to Hayes' election.

Foreign policy

• "Immigration problems soon resulted. " Too vague to be meaningful to the reader. Why is this paragraph under Foreign policy? It reads like domestic policy to me. Perhaps you should discuss immigration first in the Domestic policy section and then have a sentence in foreign policy that said that the treaty was renegotiated in response to those pressures and events.

Notable legislation

I do not believe that this section complies with WP:LIST. Consider incorporating prose into the above sections.

Significant events

I do not believe that this section complies with WP:LIST. Consider incorporating prose into the above sections.

Post-Presidency

• "Hayes began trust funds that purposed to educate poor southern whites and blacks." Explain source of funds. Did he donate them personally or solicited funds from the public?
• "Hayes also served on the Board of Trustees of The Ohio State University, the school he helped found during his time as governor of Ohio, from the end of his Presidency until his death." Awkward. How about "From the end of his Presidency until his death, Hayes also served on the Board of Trustees of The Ohio State University, the school he helped found during his time as governor of Ohio."
• "Rutherford Birchard Hayes died" just use last name.

Family

Why is this at the end of the article? Possibly include discussion of his sons and his becoming an honorary fraternity member here rather than in Early Life It is odd that none of his children lead lives sufficiently notable to be covered in a separate Wikipedia article. Wikify Lucy Webb Hayes his wife and James Webb Cook Hayes his son and check the rest. (I know they are linked in the infobox, but I suggest linking in the body as well.)

Breadth

Check what other historians have considered worthy of coverage. For example, lecturers at the Hayes Library.

• Explain Hayes' role in the election of 1880. Was he actively supporting a candidate? Anything notable about the Presidential transition?
• Discuss the Rutherford B. Hayes Center Library as the first presidential library.
• Expand discussion of relationship with McKinley.
• Expand Custom House fight into the broader context of Presidential power. Lincoln expanded it, and Reconstution represented a new peak. However, the impeachment of Johnson represented a counter-reaction to broad Presidential power. How did the Hayes Administration generally reflect the historic trend, falling between Grant and Teddy Roosevelt?
• No coverage of cabinet other than wikitable. (I would float the wikitable besides some text in the Presidency section and add some discussion of how Hayes used his cabinet.) His White House biography says, "For his Cabinet he chose men of high caliber, but outraged many Republicans because one member was an ex-Confederate and another had bolted the party as a Liberal Republican in 1872." Perhaps you should include this.
• Aside from its role in Munn, what did the Hayes administration do to implement and apply the 13-15th amendments?
• Hayes inherited the Civil Rights Act of 1875. What did his administration do to enforce it? Did his Justice Department side with African Americans in the courts?
• Explain Hayes' stance of prohibition and his fears that the Prohibitionist party was attracting dry Republicans.
• I found a source which stated "In the pre-Civil War years, while an attorney in Cincinnati, he had often defended blacks and runaway slaves." Considering adding that fact to the Early Years section to help balance the impression created about Hayes' position on race relations.

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Rutherford B. Hayes/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

This article has been vandalized. It lists him as Rutherford Bitch Hayes.

Last edited at 19:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 22:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)