Talk:Ryū-te

Ron Craddock

New content has been added to this article with no attribution or references. Specifically the following:

"Soke Ron Craddock was good friends with Oyata and was heavily influenced by him. His Shinki-Ryu Karate is an offspring of Ryukyu Kempo and utilizes many styles of both Oyata and George Dillman."

If there are Wikipedia:Reliable sources which confirm this fact, then please add the citation. Otherwise I will remove this claim.

IBlack9 (talk) 21:03, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Soke Ron Craddock was honored to have Master Oyata stay at his home on several occasions. I have access to photographs of both men together at his home. When Master Oyata distanced himself from Master Dillman, the blackbelts training under Dillman were put in a position to stay with Dillman or distance themselves as well. Ron Craddock left his training with Master Dillman. Ron Craddock notes Oyata's influence at the following web address. www.craddockmartialarts.com

I apologize that I did not know how to post references into wiki. I am a novice.

If necessary I can provide more information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.233.81.252 (talk) 21:13, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

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Thanks for taking the time to respond. I believe you may benefit from reading the link detailing Wikipedia:Reliable sources to understand the type of references that are used on Wikipedia. In particular, I think the section on Self-Published sources (WP:SELFSOURCE) is relevant. Summed up, a person can be a source of information about themselves, but only as long as they are not making claims regarding third parties. So, while it may be true that Mr. Craddock was a friend or student of Mr. Oyata, his own website would not be considered a reliable source from a Wikipedia perspective. If you have third-party sources (also called "Secondary Sources" such as published books or peer-reviewed papers of some sort) which provide the same information, those could be excellent sources for these claims.

Additionally, I'm not sure even with a reliable source that these claims would be appropriate for this page since the topic is Oyata's art of Ryu-Te, rather than the practitioners of that art. You may note that other practitioners of Ryu-Te are not mentioned, unless they further the reader's understanding of the art of Ryu-Te overall. For example, those responsible for bringing Oyata to the United States are mentioned as that was a critical moment in the history of Ryu-Te. Similarly, some are mentioned to provide understanding of how the art migrated to Europe. The section to which you added the claims regarding Mr. Craddock is actually talking about controversies, and specifically Mr. Oyata's relationship with Mr. Dillman. I'm assuming that your intention isn't to portray Mr. Craddock as having been party to some sort of controversy related to Mr. Oyata or Ryu-Te.

Perhaps if you have appropriate sources for the information you're presenting, it would be more appropriate on a Wikipedia page about Mr. Craddock. In that context, his influences would obviously be central to his history.

I hope this helps. If it would help, I'd be happy to provide some guidance as to how to create your own page regarding Mr. Craddock and how you can add references and the like.

IBlack9 (talk) 21:30, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Article Class

Now that this article has stabilized, it seems to be that it exceeds the "Start" classification it has within the Martial Arts Project scope. I'm uncertain if it would be best categorized as a "B" or "C" however. Would someone care to weigh in on this? 70.39.231.36 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:46, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Looks like a B Class document to me so I've updated it. If someone disagrees (either up or down), feel free to comment and we can discuss. Class is hard to gauge without a discussion.

Peacock words

I see there's a flag for peacock language, so I just went through to fix any, but found little. Perhaps it has already been fixed and we should remove the flag? Are there specific sections or terms left that need to be addressed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sderose (talk • contribs) 17:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Notability

I've looked at some web sites [1][2] and some books: I find no mention of Taika Seiyu Oyata, Uhugushiku no Tanmei or Wakinaguri. Mark Bishop 'Okinawan Karate' has a section on Shigeru Nakamura and his students: no mention of Oyata. Is this article based on blogs? jmcw (talk) 18:15, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

This article was based on direct experience. You can find several mentions of this person through a search: [3]. Alue (talk) 00:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Just because Mark Bishop didn't mention Oyata in his book doesn't mean that he was not associated with Nakamura! I trained in Okinawa with Oyata, along with a host of others. Would you like to see pictures of Oyata and Nakamura together? Why do you base your opinion on one book? And what is your purpose? If you don't belong to this style or train under Oyata or one of his students, then what business is it of your's what his background is?

As far as Uhughushiku and Wakinaguri go, so what if people like Bishop or McCarthy didn't write about them. They weren't involved with public karate and didn't like the way it was headed under the hands of others. Most styles of karate in Okinawa try to trace their origins back to Sakugawa, Kusanku and a shipped wrecked Chinese sailor. Did this people exist? Probably. Are they the only ones who knew martial arts in Okinawa?

Okinawa had 700 years of feudalistic rule. There are over 150 castle sites in Okinawa and there were many battles of succession and aggression. Many of the small kingdoms fought over territorial and trade rights until the Ryukyu Kingdom merged into one central rule. So, there had to be some form of martial art they used to fight each other and many warriors. This fact is overlooked by most who write about the history of karate.

Common sense is needed here. One or two people can not be credited with the development of karate. It is a combination of many things and many people. I know my great grandfather's name, but I never met him. I only know a little about him and that I learned from my family. I don't know who my great great grandfather. Does that mean he didn't exist?

Jim Logue —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.25.219.127 (talk) 11:54, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not about truth: it is about Wikipedia:Verifiability. You, your father, your grandfather, your great grandfather or your great great grandfather would need Wikipedia:Reliable sources to have an article in Wikipedia. So do Taika Seiyu Oyata, Uhugushiku no Tanmei, Wakinaguri and Ryu te. I don't belong to this style or train under Oyata or one of his students, but I am aware of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines (for instance, Wikipedia:Notability). Common sense dictates that you learn something about Wikipedia (like signing yourself with '~~~~'. Welcome to Wikipedia! jmcw (talk) 15:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Ivan Black - I've just added several additional sources regarding the history of Seiyu Oyata. Hopefully that will address the notability concerns. If they persist, however, there are additional references (Book, Magazine and web-based) which could be included as well. If this is sufficient for now, however, I'd like to see the tag removed. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.39.231.36 (talk) 14:11, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I've added significant sources and citations to this article and am confident that it meets WP:WPMA/N guidelines. It is primarily based on secondary sources, with use of primary sources for corroboration of secondary sources only (per WP:PSTS). I will leave the notability tag on it for now, but plan on removing it soon unless someone objects. IBlack9 (talk) 13:41, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I've just added a significant amount of content to this page in hopes of addressing all of the former concerns. If anyone still has citation, notability or even format/WP:MOS issues, please let me know and I'll do what I can. IBlack9 (talk) 19:04, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Do Not Merge Dillman and Oyata in the Ryu-Te section!

In no way should the articles of Ryu-Te be merged with Dillman or Ryukyu Kempo. Although Oyata began as Ryukyu Kempo, it was Dillman that caused Oyata to rename his organization to Ryu-Te. He did this to separate himself from Dillman and others who were using Ryukyu Kempo as their organization name.

Ryu-Te is an acronym for Ryukyu Hand. Oyata chose this name to reflect the old ways of karate when it was simply referred to as Di or Ti (hand). Karate (空手) is a relatively new way of describing the martial art of Okinawa. It has been referred to as Liu Chu no Di (琉球の手); Okinawa no Di (沖縄の手); bushi no di (武士の手); and Tode (唐手). Oyata's martial art is tied to the ancient way and he wanted to credit Okinawa (Ryukyu) by naming his organization Ryu-Te (Ryukyu Hand).

Jim Logue —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.25.219.127 (talk) 11:42, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Dojo Principles Wrong?

So I radomly decided to read the wiki on this... (Got bored of working on a project so I sidetracked my self...) And I noticed that while in meaning the principle are right, the wording is defintley different from most of the prinicples on the sheet I got when I joined Ryu-Te about 2 years ago.... (Probably didn't word that right...)

Although I admit that the sheet I have seems to have typos...

IE. their is no "a" In the fourth principle before peaceful..... Strive to become a warrior for the construction of peaceful and free world.... It creates a gramatically awkard principle, and honestly my sensei's won't tell me whether or not I should include a or not... (Well they kind of do, but in a manner that makes me go huh and nod a long.... (It was more like they were saying I should ask Taika, and he would demonstrate physically(aka beat me up...) but anyways..) that's all...

Update: I now feel rather foolish, for I have only today realized that my Sensei's probably only typed up part of the Dojo Principles... (and not very well copied either...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.105.167.186 (talk) 03:55, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh it would be nice if someone typed up something about Taika, I honestly know rather little about him, only bits and pieces from conversations between my senseis, and some of the lectures... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmaisme (talk • contribs) 04:50, 10 June 2011 (UTC)