Talk:Ryan Moore (golfer)

Initial comments

Ryan Moore (actor) has been deleted as not notable/vanity/etc[1]. So this article can probably be moved back to Ryan Moore now; in the meantime, I've changed that page from a disambig to a redirect that points here. --Calair 00:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

That's done. Thanks Calair. -- I@n ≡ talk 02:46, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Removed material about being known for not accepting sponsorship

I removed some material, especially from the lede, about "not accepting sponsorship". I was reverted with an edit summary about seeing the next sentence and source, but that does not include support for this material, and in fact says that he has nothing against sponsorship and had it before. Can a reliable source be posted here before this material is readded so it can be reviewed and discussed? Thank you. --Malerooster (talk) 03:36, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Added ref. Tewapack (talk) 04:20, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

It turned some heads? That shouldn't be in the lead and that cite doesn't support the material. --Malerooster (talk) 04:32, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I copy edited it, but I still wouldn't included it in the lede. The lede actually is pretty poorly written, seems like recentism, and could use an overhaul. Do you want to try and take a stab at it? --Malerooster (talk) 04:37, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Agree the lead could use a rewrite and sponsorship moved to appropriate section. You can have a go at it, it'll be a while before I can get to it. Tewapack (talk) 04:41, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I stuck at writing, that is why I do a little copy editing and remove overlinks and repeated see also entries and DOB of non notable minors and other MOS that should be mindless. I could possible try to do a rewrite here. It would be a first for me :) Cheers! --Malerooster (talk) 04:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Curent lede and new rewrite, please help

Current lede:

Ryan David Moore (born December 5, 1982) is an American professional golfer, currently playing on the PGA Tour. He had a successful amateur career. For most of 2009, he did not have an equipment or apparel sponsorship.[3] In November 2009, Moore became a part-owner of the golf equipment company Scratch Golf and played their clubs and sported the company's logo.[4] In 2010, Moore announced a deal with Adams Golf and gave up his stake in Scratch Golf.[5] He signed with TaylorMade for the 2013 season.[6]

New lede:

Ryan David Moore (born December 5, 1982) is an American professional golfer, currently playing on the PGA Tour. Following a successful amateur career, he turned pro in 2005. Moore reached a career high world ranking of 40 in 2012. He has won twice on the PGA tour and has 2 top 10 finishes in the majors. His 2 wins came at the Wyndham Championship in 2009 and the Shriners Hospital for Children Open in 2012.

OK, what other information goes into a well written lede of a PGA player? --Malerooster (talk) 04:58, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I am going to bed. I have to crow in the early morning :) --Malerooster (talk) 05:02, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation

There are six Ryan Moores on Wikipedia. I'm attempting to add a helpful disambiguation note to the article. If you feel this is unhelpful, please make your case here.Timtempleton (talk) 17:26, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

See WP:DABLINK#Usage guidelines for why a hatnote is not needed on this page. Tewapack (talk) 17:33, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree that the usage guidelines apply here. I've never heard of the golfer Ryan Moore. His name does not clearly distinguish himself from the generic term, which is a fundamental requirement for the hatnote guidelines. I was looking for a different Ryan Moore [[2]], [[3]], [[4]] and was surprised that he does not have an article yet. I was even more surprised that there was no helpful disambiguation link. It's faster to click on the wrong result in the Google results and then just click on the usual disambiguation link to navigate to the right article. (I also Google Wikipedia to get to the site instead of typing it in the search box as a URL). I understand that I have much less time invested than you do in this article, but Ryan Moore isn't as well known as you think outside of golfer circles, unlike more mainstream golfers like Tiger Woods and Jordan Spieth. Utility should trump aesthetics. Normally I'd seek consensus but the only people who are going to see this discussion on the Ryan Moore (golfer) talk page are going to be like-minded golfing fans. I don't want this to get revert blocked and make more work for anyone else, but that may be the only way to get impartial feedback from others about which of us is correct.Timtempleton (talk) 18:15, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

If you type "Ryan Moore" into the Wikipedia search box you get to the disamb. page and will quickly see that the Ryan Moore you are searching for doesn't have a Wikipedia page. If you got to the Ryan Moore (golfer) page then you were probably looking for the golfer, not someone else. That's what the hatnotes are for. For example, if I was looking for the golfer David Frost and went to David Frost, then the hatnote is useful to point my to the disamb. page and then to David Frost (golfer). Tewapack (talk) 18:50, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I got to the Ryan Moore (golfer) page and was not looking for him. I went there as a way to eventually get to the disambiguation page, which is quite common on other sites, but not here, simply because of your reverts. If the argument is that you don't need a hatnote when the person is well known, I'll counter that Ryan Moore is not well known enough to eliminate the other 5 Ryan Moore's from being found. I think it's easier to one click a hatnote than go to the search box and type in the name and then click enter. Are you sure you're not letting personal concerns about how your articles look get in the way of improving site utility?Timtempleton (talk) 21:58, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Note that there are no hatnotes on any other the other Ryan Moore pages either, because they are not needed. The argument isn't that Ryan Moore (golfer) is well known or not, it is that the "golfer" in the page title is clear disamb. From WP:DABLINK#Usage guidelines, "There is not always a need to add disambiguation links to a page whose name already clearly distinguishes itself from the generic term." See also, WP:NAMB. Tewapack (talk) 22:34, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Reading WP:NAMB makes it clear that you and I are not the first to disagree on hatnotes, but what I'm saying is that I use disambiguation hatnotes as a navigation shortcut. I got to Ryan Moore (golfer) on purpose - as a quick way to get to the disambiguation page link one would usually find at the top, but was not there. Instead of just one click, I then had to go to the search box, type his name again, search for the disambiguation page on the pulldown menu and then clicked on it. That's less efficient. So our disagreement is that I feel faster navigation through the site to get to the right article is more important than having less information in an article's header. How do you feel about the hatnote for the Arnold Palmer Invitational on top of the Arnold Palmer page? Nobody looking for the Arnold Palmer Invitational is ever going to confuse a tournament with a man. Nonetheless, can we agree that having that hatnote is better than making readers go to the search box and type in Arnold Palmer International?Timtempleton (talk) 22:19, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

All you had to do is type "Ryan Moore" in the search box and hit return - boom, your at the disamb. page. Tewapack (talk) 20:36, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

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