Talk:Ryti–Ribbentrop Agreement/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: PizzaKing13 (talk · contribs) 21:37, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and review this one. Something new and fresh from the normal topics I'm used to. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 21:37, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Infobox

• Y Add a comma after "President of Finland" in the type parameter.
• Y Add "the" between "with" and "resignation" in the expiration parameter.

Sections

Lead

Paragraph 1

• Is there a reason for the Swedish translation being present?
  • It's an artifact of the original article, here presumably because Swedish is an official language in Finland. I'm rather ambivalent about it and wouldn't oppose removing it if you feel it's undue.
    • I don't think its necessary. Remove it.

•  Done -Ljleppan (talk) 16:03, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• Is there a German translation?
  • I don't recall seeing one in Finnish or English sources. There's an article in de.wiki, but I don't speak German so I can't really verify whether their title is use in the literature.
    • Fair. Leave it out then.
• Y Move the date the letter was composed to the end of the first sentence.
• Y Keep consistency with how the titles are presented, ie use "Finnish President Risto Ryti to German Führer Adolf Hitler" OR "President Risto Ryti of Finland to Führer Adolf Hitler of Germany". I personally think the first one is better.
• Y Change "out of the war" to "out of the Continuation War", and link Continuation War, since what war they were fighting wasn't mentioned.

Paragraph 2

• Y Add "the" between "where" and "Germans".
• Y Remove the link to the Continuation War, since it should be linked in the first paragraph.

Paragraph 4

• Y Change "and on 1 August Ryti resigned" to "and Ryti resigned on 1 August"
• Y Remove "then" from "Finland then had to remove" PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 21:53, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Historical background

Paragraph 1

• Y Change "going back to" to "dating back to" (more formal).
• Y Remove the comma in "secret to Germany, where they".
• Y Add "being" between "400 jägers" and "promoted". I'm pretty sure that's correct.
• Y Remove the comma in "Imperial German forces, who took part".
• Y Is there a page for the capture of Helsinki? If so, link it.
• Y Lowercase "jäger" in the last sentence.

Paragraph 2

• Y I know what "[Germanophilic] and [anti-communist, Russophobic] stances" is trying to say but it sounds awkward. You should break apart anti-communist and Russophobic. I'd suggest "Germanophilic, Russophobic, and anti-communist stances".
• Y Change "who had commanded" to "who commanded"

Paragraph 3

• You should briefly mention why the Winter War started.
  • A classic case of "it's complicated". I'll look around for a short explanation in one of my sources.

•  Done: Added a short summary -Ljleppan (talk) 07:07, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• Y Add "The" before "British and French".
• Y Change "had come" to "came".

Paragraph 4

• Y Lowercase "northern" in "movements to Northern Norway".

Paragraph 5

• Y Lowercase "northern" in "operations in Northern Finland".
• Y Remove the comma in "Soviet Eastern Karelia, where they"

Paragraph 6

• Y Add "the" before "Soviet Air Force"
• Are there specific targets in Finland where the Soviet Air Force struck?
  • I'll check the source.

•  Maybe Added a bit more detail. Nenye lists 7 major Finnish cities, but I don't think an exhaustive list is necessary or even beneficial. -Ljleppan (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• That's fine.

• Y "bombing" → "bombings"
• Y "However, it soon became clear that the German forces" → "It soon became clear, however, that the German forces"

Paragraph 7

• Y Remove the comma in "defensive, war"
• Y Remove the comma in "Finnish cities, did the Finns".
• Y Remove the comma in "deteriorated further, when" PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:32, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Negotiations

Paragraph 1

• Y Add a comma between "back" and "especially"
• Y "with preparations being made for evacuating" → "and preparations were made to evacuate"

Paragraph 2

• Y Remove "OKW" and make "German High Command" to OKW

Paragraph 3

• Y Add a comma between "Niobe" and "were"
• Y Italicize Prinz Eugen and Niobe

Paragraph 4

• Y Remove "OKW" and capitalize "German High Command"

Paragraph 5

• Y Mention that Joachim von Ribbentrop was the minister of foreign affairs.
• Y "Ribbentrop's instructions were to force" → "Ribbentrop was instructed to force"
• Y Italicize Prinz Eugen and Admiral Hipper

Paragraph 6

• Y Is there a reason that "confessions" is translated into German?
  • Nothing beyond "this seems like a weird phrasing, original German might capture more nuance"; removed.
• Y "to Bulgaria. This information" → "to Bulgaria, and this information"

Paragraph 7

• All good.

Paragraph 8

• Y "Ribbentrop as too vague" → "Ribbentrop as being too vague"

Paragraph 9

• Y Link the parliament
• Y Remove "Finnish President" as we already know who Ryti is. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:47, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Final agreement

• All good. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:48, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Reactions and consequences

Paragraph 1

• "The socialist parties", what socialist parties?
  • I need to check the ref for this, but I thinkthat Jokisipilä is equally vague. I'll see if I can find something more definitive.

•  Done: named and wikilinked with a bit more prose -Ljleppan (talk) 07:06, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Paragraph 2

• Y Mention Nenye by his full name "Vesa Nenye"
• Y Same with Jokisipilä, "Markku Jokisipilä"

Paragraph 3

• Y "pull" was duplicated. Delete one
• Y Add a comma between "21 July" and "Detachment Kuhlmey" PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:52, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Finnish exit from the war

Paragraph 1

• Y Mention that Keitel was the Chief of the German High Command

Paragraph 2

• I don't think it's 100% necessary, but you should mention the outcome of the Lapland War. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:54, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
  • Good idea, I'll source a concise summary. -Ljleppan (talk) 11:48, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

     Done - Ljleppan (talk) 07:14, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

References and sources

• Sources are good
• Make sure the sources are in alphabetical order by surname. Jokisipilä and Jonas should go ahead of Leskinen.
  •  Done -Ljleppan (talk) 11:50, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
• Categories and navbars are good. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:07, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Images

• Jäger 27 Ostfront.jpg Y
• Baltic Sea Division in Helsinki 1918.jpg Y
• Road of life. 1941 December.jpg Y
• Hitler visit Finland 1942.jpg Y
• GERibbentrop.jpg Y
• Tali-Ihantala.jpg Y
• LapinSota.jpeg Y

All images seem to be copyright compliant or be out of copyright entirely. Captioned appropriately. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:01, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Overall

• Stable with no war edits
• POV is neutral
• Broad in coverage and focused on the topic
• Layout is good. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:56, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Final remarks

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

@Ljleppan: Very well done on improving the article from what it was before September 2022. A rework like this is what I've been aiming for with various pages relating to Salvadoran topics. Most of what I'm suggesting are grammar related changes, so once that's done, I'll most likely go ahead and pass this article. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 22:59, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@PizzaKing13: Thank you for the very thorough comments! I'm currently traveling for a work related workshop but should be able to handle these in the next 48 hours or so. I'll mark simple CE things as done with an inline Y and only comment if there's something more complex than "done" to say, if that's fine with you. I'll ping you in this thread once done. Ljleppan (talk) 07:15, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ljleppan: Alright, go ahead. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 07:23, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

As an update, I fixed (most?) of the smaller stuff. A few things require sourcing, which I'll do later today. Ljleppan (talk) 11:51, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@PizzaKing13: Mostly done now. See the note re: bombing targets in "Historical background" and the first two comments for Lead paragraph 1 for bits I'm a uncertain about. If you think some of the expanded parts are still too terse, let me know and I'll try to add a bit more detail. Ljleppan (talk) 07:39, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ljleppan: Responded. Let me know what that's done. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 15:56, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@PizzaKing13: Done, let me know if I missed anything. Ljleppan (talk) 16:05, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ljleppan: Perfect. Very good job on this one! A very interesting read.I'll go ahead and pass this article now. PizzaKing13 (Hablame) 16:46, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.