Talk:S-Bahn/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

18:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)DHimmelspach=="Similar" systems== I am tempted to delete the section titled "Similar systems in other countries" in its entirety. This obviously would be a major change and I don't do it lightly. However, I feel a strong case can be made for such a deletion.

1. Relevancy: This article is about a specific class of passenger trains in German-speaking countries. Discussion of other rail networks in other parts of the world digresses from the main focus of the article. Furthermore, the length of this list threatens to overwhelm the main body of the article.
2. Redundancy: The main body of the article already specifically mentions a few systems as being similar to the S-Bahnen. These include the RER in Paris and the S-tog in Copenhagen. The main authors of this article chose to single out these few systems as being the most like an S-Bahn, and I feel that the rest of us should defer to that judgment. These references adequately function to place the S-Bahnen in an international context.
3. Duplication of articles: Wikipedia already contains numerous articles, categories, and lists which discuss passenger rail transit in more general terms. These are more appropriate places for discussion of non-German rail systems.
4. Subjectivity: This is my main objection. Similar is a subjective term. There is no objective standard as to how alike two systems must be to be considered similar. This opens the door to claiming that any suburban rail system is similar to the S-Bahnen. I believe this is exactly what has happened in this case. I believe that the comparison of North American commuter rail systems to the German S-Bahnen is highly inaccurate. I think commuter rail systems in cities such as New York, Chicago, and Toronto are more equivalent to German RegionalBahnen than S-Bahnen. S-Bahn systems are more like rapid transit systems, but they extend further out into the suburbs than fully grade-separated U-Bahn systems. I think the best North American equivalent would be the San Francisco BART. While I will admit I know little about rail systems outside North America, I suspect that some of the UK systems are listed more out of civic pride than any real similarity to S-Bahn networks. By deleting the entire section we would avoid edit wars where editors quibble over which systems are similar enough to be listed. DHimmelspach 01:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it's useful in providing a context that the reader can recognise, and a general overview of suburban rail. I wrote the UK section, and a lot of the systems are there specifically to say what is [i]not[/i] like an S-Bahn, why. This means it has become more generalised, so perhaps the whole section could be separated off into its own article; I think as a list it's really useful, and I'd hate to see it deleted. ArtVandelay13 19:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Rather than deleting the list, I've been working on rewriting the United States section using the UK section as a model. My hope is that in the future, editors will read what is there now and provide some justification for any additions to the list. DHimmelspach 18:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this section has become too long and almost dominates the article. Should it not be moved to Commuter rail? A much shorter summary could be left here and a 'main article' link added. Bermicourt (talk) 22:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Agree entirely. This article is about S-Bahnen, not commuter rail. There is no reason why a rail network not called "S-Bahn" should be discussed in detail here.Nankai (talk) 23:47, 13 January 2011 (UTC). See RER for an example of an article keeping to topic.Nankai (talk) 23:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

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109.231.199.254 (talk) 16:02, 6 September 2011 (UTC)==Concidering Sweden== Someone is trying to tell a lie here - or have no experience of S-Bahns. German S-Bahn are trains that stops evry kilometer inside the city centers, often in tunnels. The lines have lots of junction stations with U-Bahn making it easy to change line or system. In the larger german cities U-Bahn runs on separate tracks, and so do the S-Bahn aswell. The major difference between S-Bahn and U-Bahn is not if they run in tunnels, on the ground or elevated, but that U-Bahn (almost) never run parallell with other trains. S-Bahn might - but on it's own two tracks (wich means if an S-Bahn runs parallell to an other kind of train, there are always four tracks). Just look at http://www.berlinverkehr.com/netze/091213_VBB-Liniennetz.pdf - U-Bahn, S-Bahn and Regionaltrains for Berlin with http://www.sweden4rus.nu/img/visual/map/tunnelbana.gif - the Metro and Pendeltåg of Stockholm. Note inner city zone is zone 1 in Stockholm, the Pendeltåg is coloured black and there are only three stops and no real junctions between Pendeltåg and Metro. And besides that other trains (IC-trains and expresstrains also use the black tracks, wich only are two, not four). The only comparission possible between Pendeltåg and urban trains of Berlin must be the Regionalbahn/Regionak trains in Berlin. S-Bahn have a certain standard - wich do not exist in Sweden. (The Stockholm Metro/Underground is thow "up to common metro standard" , but thats not an issue of this page. In Sweden exists Commuter trains/Local trains , Regional & Interregional trains , Inter City trains and the faster X-2000 trains all electrified, but not seldom with one track only. Any kind of urban trains (apart from Stockholm metro) does not exist. /the swede —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.249.37.185 (talk) 07:54, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Note by the way that the Stockholm metro is only the green, red and lightblue lines. (Black Pendeltåg) The others are tramlines or local trains. And not again - only zone 1 is the real city, other stations is in pure suburbs. To change from the black Pendeltåg to the metro looks very close but it's a longer walk then what normally is concidered to be an interchange station (and it isn't the train station is called "Centralstationen" and the closest metro station , about half a mile away is called "T-centralen", one of very few junctions i Stockholm rail traffic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.249.37.185 (talk) 08:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

rewrite needed?

Very poor article, poor structure, repetition, digression. Does it need to be completely rewritten? In my view the structure should be: 1) Definition / description (there is no definition, but some aspects are common to most systems), 2) history, 3) German systems (cause that's were it started) 4) Austrian and Swiss systems (cause they are basically the same) 5) Similar systems (starting with Copenhagen and Prague, which are clearly copies, but no list of other urban rail systems or a discussion of their similarities and differences to various S-Bahn systems - this is an encyclopedia not a research study. 82.15.19.143 (talk) 19:22, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

PATH Train?

The PATH train in NYC/NJ is almost similar to an S-Bahn, though quite small. It is metro-like, with subway-style payments and timetables and stations close together in the city, but also extends far into NJ (all the way to Newark). 64.70.114.88 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC).

Confused?

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5hkR-IAnwQ - very simple except in some cities ...

"Castling" suggestion

(Castling is a special chess move which is the only one that involves two own pieces, the King and one of the rooks) "S-Bahn" is doubtlessly a German term. I find S-train to be the best translation. And wwe are really obliged to use English , especially in article names. However currently the S-train article only deals with Copenhagen S-tog. That article should clearly instead become Copenhagen S-train. And equally should the S-Bahn in for instance Rostock or Vienna have their own articles. (Rostock S-train and Vienna S-train) Etc. Further, in my oppinion there are three or four kinds of S-Bahn/S-tog.

.

1. Full Metro standard (separate tracks for the S-Train system)
2. S-Bahns which partly share tracks with other train system (also if they are large)
3. S-Bahns which reminds of pure Suburban - to - City service.
4. S-Bahns with long time between each departure, track sharing, one or two shorter lines etc.

.

But these are all S-train not Commuter train nor Suburban train. Perhaps an "S" in the name isn't necessary, but other train system must be comparable to one of the four mentioned types. The only Metro-like S-trains, to my current knowledge, exists in Hamburg, Berlin and Copenhagen. These three system have

1. no track sharing
2. bridges and tunnels ensure collitions with other train types or car/bus/tram etc can happen.
3. they have typically 10 minutes between each departure
4. even if suburbs are connected, the S-trains can certainly be used for inter-city-centre transport as well. (Just one or two centrally located stations is not Metro-standard S-trains or S-train at all)

.

I added my thoughts of these issues, since the article is flagged for several topics. But unless no one objects to my castling proposal, I will go on with this. But of cource am I interested in all inputs. In the Ruhr area the S-Bahn (S-Train in English) connects very many cities and towns. I've never been there so far, and input of the S-trains there would be extra appriciated. Thanks! 83.249.172.121 (talk) 03:46, 2 March 2016 (UTC) I'm having problem with my automatical logging in, sorry. Boeing720 (talk) 03:51, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Renaming to English "S-train" is close. Please object now.

Seee arguments in "Casteling" at this talk-page. S-train is now made available. And since not all S-system are located whithin German speaking area, the English name (S-Train) is better. Please object NOW not later - if anyone disagrees ! Boeing720 (talk) 04:42, 9 March 2016 (UTC)