Talk:SY Gondola

Efficiency at high speeds

Present text reads: ....a hull cruising speed of 7/8 knots (9.2 mph/15 km/h) knots and a maximum hull speed of 11.7 knots (13.5 mph/21.7 km/h) knots at 240rpm (at this speed, although just four knots faster than cruising speed, the engines use 60% more steam).

Is this 60% more steam per minute, or per mile? If it is per minute then efficiency is quite good because 13.5/9.2 = 1.47 and we're getting 47% more speed for only 60% more steam - in other words at 13.5 knots the efficiency is 92% of that at 9.2 knots. I am a passer-by and don't want to edit the article, but do feel that the issue should be clarified. JMBryant (talk) 15:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Article's previous location

Previous edits to this article can be seen in the article Coniston Water's History. PiP (talk) 06:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Boiler's water supply.

Does anyone know the name of the system where pressure in the boiler is used to draw water out of the lake and into the boiler? - - - BigglesPiP ^{- Talk | Contribs -} 17:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Name of article

In accordance with WP:NC-S the name of the artice should be "SY Gondola". Mjroots (talk) 18:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily, can you provide sources first that indicate that the prefix SY was used in connection with this boat? Benea (talk) 18:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

The Prefix "Steam Yacht" isn't used to identify the boat outside Wikipedia IIRC, it's simply called Gondola. I have no objections to the title being changed to "SY Gondola". - - - BigglesPiP ^{- Talk | Contribs -} 18:57, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

It's certainly used as a descriptive term - 'The steam yacht Gondola was originally commissioned...'. Gondola (steam yacht) might be an alternative. Benea (talk) 19:00, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

The National Trust have "Steam yacht Gondola" as a title on their site, but simply call her "Gondola" throughout other text. The bulk of the article, including the section you quoted was contributed by one editor (whom I suspect is actually Roger Mallinson looking at his other contribs.) without references. - - - BigglesPiP ^{- Talk | Contribs -} 19:04, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Gondola (steam yacht) seems like the most appropriate then, to fit with our conventions. viz,

• "If a ship is best known in combination with a ship prefix, use the prefix as part of the name" - It doesn't appear to be known as SY Gondola (and I'm not sure how legitimate SY is as a prefix anyway) - so the next step is:
• "A ship not known by a prefix should appear under its name only, if that is unambiguous" - Gondola is ambiguous, so we end up with -
• "when the name is ambiguous, append disambiguation information in parentheses as usual."

Any objections to Gondola (steam yacht)? Benea (talk) 19:14, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Fine by me, will need to remove "SY" from several places in the article itself too. I don't know the best way to move an article myself, would we also need to edit the DYK nominations page to correct the name? - - - BigglesPiP ^{- Talk | Contribs -} 19:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I've moved it and fixed the double redirects. I've also fixed the DYK hook and left a note explaining it. I've raised the picture there as well. You never know. Looking at Steam yacht it seems that SY can be used a prefix (thought the article is unreferenced). I'm happy to leave references in the text to SY Gondola, but I think the article title is still better at Gondola (steam yacht) as she herself is best known as just Gondola. Benea (talk) 19:33, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Oops, was just removing those. I think it's better without, as "SY Gondola" seems to have been coined to fit in with Wikipedia. I think the article should refer to the boat as either "Gondola" or "steam yacht Gondola". - - - BigglesPiP ^{- Talk | Contribs -} 19:39, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm fine either way. Good work, should be about ready for the adoring public at DYK now. Benea (talk) 19:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Answers to your questions-

In answer to why the prefix 'SY' is used in conjunction with Gondola; SY is the general classification of the craft type she was designed as, for example 'PS' is 'paddle steamer; MV is 'motor vessel' and so on.

Steam Yacht Gondola is also the commercial name of the National Trust enterprise which runs the boat.

In answer to 'is that 60% more steam per minute, or mile?'-

Efficiency is always a measure of how much work, or POWER (horsepower), a prime mover does for a given amount of FUEL (lbs).

It is not purely a measure of how much WORKING FLUID, in this case steam, is used.

Remember the equation for horsepower;

                                        PxLxAxN/33,000

P- mean effective steam pressure (psi) L- length of stroke (ft) A- area of piston (inch sq.) N- RPM

So 60% more steam would be required to give an extra 4knots of speed, with a MEP of around 90psi on the valve chest, but this require, at a guess, around three times as much FUEL to evaporate enough steam- so for a 45% increase in speed, a 60% increase in WORKING FLUID would require 300% increase in FUEL.

Not quite as efficient as our freind here thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gondolier (talk • contribs) 21:26, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

OK, I forgot!

Mea culpa, I forgot about the above discussion and have boldly moved the article to SY Gondola. If anyone really objects and wants to move it back to the previous title then I'll not object. If you need admin assistance to do this I'll be happy to reverse the move. Mjroots (talk) 09:04, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Mis-described as a ship

Can anyone explain why this steam yacht is in Wikidata as a "ship"? It isn't – not by either usual definition. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Reliable sources

I have added two references; one to an NT booklet (in my possession) and one to the Steamboat Association's online register. The two disagree about main dimensions. I have used those from the NT booklet, as they are the current owners, and the Steamboat Association are referencing 'Classic Boat Feb 1997' as their source. Anyone have access to Vickers Shipbuilding Group's records on the matter?--Verbarson (talk) 20:55, 29 April 2021 (UTC)