Talk:SY Shanti Devi

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It says "copied" to Shouldn't it be "moved" to? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Profero (talk • contribs) 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Schooner or Ketch

There has been uncertainty of the rigging of this sailing-ship as to whether it should be regarded as a Schooner or a Ketch. Shanti Devi was built, and is still defined, as a schooner but later had the height of the masts slightly altered. But still the sail-plan is for a schooner. Please see:

• Sail-plan

--Profero 14:51, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

• Without a doubt this boat is a ketch. The photo shows it clearly. When a boat has two masts and the foremast is taller, this is so. One case where a two masted boat with taller foremast might not be a ketch is in the case of boats with no headsail on the forward mast; this traditionally being a cat yawl regardless of placement of the aft mast. Further, if the masts are the same height, it is still called a ketch unless the working sail of the aft mast is significantly larger than the sail of the foremast. Boats and ships when defined by their sail plan, as opposed to their hull type or purpose (a trawler is always a trawler), are always defined by their current sail plan. Other examples of this are when a barque later in life is re-rigged as a barquentine or a cutter is re-rigged as a sloop (which entails moving the mast). It doesn't matter how it was built, one cannot say that the sail plan is still for a schooner if the foremast height has been made taller. There is no problem telling the reader that it was originally rigged as a schooner, but it has been changed now and will remain a ketch until the sail plan is changed or the boat ceases to exist.

As an aside, two other comments about the historical nature of this craft. First, this is actually a boat as it was never designed to make ocean passage, and two masted craft of any type are generally not ships. I haven't yet changed that in the article because the more esoteric difference between a ship and a boat is unlikely to be relevant to somebody wanting to know about the Shanti Devi, particularly as the article relates to its ownership by an author, and the laws in regards to the country of its current registry may define it as a ship. If something definitive can't be found, ship should be changed to boat in the article. If you are from Norway, you might have an easy time looking this up. Secondly, boats that have been used in the cargo trade that were rigged as schooners are frequently re-rigged as ketches when they are converted to private recreational use. I won't get too deep into the technical reasons for this here. Suffice it to say that while the conversion is sometimes done simply to give more open area on the aft deck for recreational purposes, it is usually done to correct undesireable changes in the sailing characteristics of the craft. This has largely to do with the redistribution of permanent ballast as the area that once held the weight of cargo now contains the largely empty living space of a yacht, and the schooner rig tended to produce too much weather helm. Aspenocean 22:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the information. Could you please name your source that defines as an absolute that "When a boat has two masts and the foremast is taller, this is so." --Profero 01:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It was built as schooner and still is a schooner, regardless the length of the foremast. By the way, I lived and worked on this boat for several years. Profero (talk) 15:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)