Talk:S (New York City Subway service)

First in 33 Years

Just an observation: the Times (referring, I suppose to Dean Street) headlined "A Subway Station is Shuttered, the First in 33 Years." I suppose the earlier reference is to Worth Street. Maybe we should mention that, since it raises a question the article doesn't answer.

Anyway, the headline is wrong: I imagine they covered themselves by referring to closing a station on an existing line without closing the line, but it creates a false impression. I'm thinking of all the stations on the lower Myrtle and 3rd Avenue-Bronx, which were quite "shuttered." -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 16:27, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, it specifically mentions Worth Street. The ones you mention were old-style els, but the Culver Line also had subway service and was closed in 1975. I've added a note to the reference. --SPUI (talk) 16:52, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Shuttle page names idea

To keep consistant, I propose that the S name (New York City Subway service) pages be renamed DIV Line Name (New York City Subway) --Jason McHuff 06:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Designation of Lefferts Boulevard Shuttle

The MTA timetable of the A service shows the Lefferts Boulevard Shuttle as . What letter appears on the trains? Vcohen (talk) 07:21, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

...as a blue S. Vcohen (talk) 07:23, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

This is not correct. All shuttles are dark gray. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:46, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

This shuttle is definitely blue. Almost always it's a blue A. And in the schedule (p.11) it's a blue S. I wrote "designated in the schedule". Vcohen (talk) 18:15, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

The trunk line color only comes into play when the trunk line is involved. Shuttle trains only traveling between Euclid Ave and Lefferts Blvd on the Fulton Street line never comes anywhere close to the IND Eighth Avenue trunk line. Same with the Rockaway Park Shuttle; it only ever uses the Rockaway line, which is also not a trunk line. The trains probably don't have a rollsign on the front to show a dark gray A, so a blue A is close enough. Similarly, E trains that can't display an orange E when re-routed to the IND Sixth Avenue Line display the next best thing, a blue E.

There are a number of trains that display things incorrectly because of technical limitations. All the new-tech trains (R142, R142A, R143, R160A, R160B) display an incorrect red front sign. Only the 2 trains display correctly on the front of trains. They show no color at all on the sides and even more importantly don't even show the difference between the 6 and <6> on the sides! (A rider has to wait until the side cycles to "Pelham Exp" or wait for the automated announcement to announce it.) The 7 trains use the wrong colors on the sides of trains, green bullet and red diamond instead of purple. R32 trains display no color at all on the front of the trains, but display trunk line colors properly on the sides. An R46 F train re-routed via the Crosstown line displays an incorrect orange front sign instead of lime green. I'm sure there are many other examples, too. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:47, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Another thing to keep in mind... Much of the rolling stock was purchased long before the trunk line colors came into being in 1979. It would stand to reason that they didn't update the signs again five years later, when they eliminated double letters, having just spent a lot of money to update them to the trunk line colors. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:59, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Do you want to say that when running as shuttles don't use their usual designations? Vcohen (talk) 19:35, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

No, they still use their usual designations, but they are displayed with the wrong trunk line color on the trains. That doesn't confuse regular riders, because it is close enough. A 5 train is still a 5 train whether it running the full route or short turning as a shuttle. Same for the rest; an A train serves Lefferts Blvd at all times whether it is a shuttle or the full route. (I would like to see the proper colors on the trains, but that would require retrofitting almost every single train in the system with color displays on the fronts and sides. No change to the R32, R42 and R46; Overhaul R62s and R68s with digital signs and replace all New-tech trains' displays (and retrofit the strip maps with FIND too).) Very few short turn shuttles are ever ridden by tourists. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:09, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Wonderful. The articles say: "It is colored <some color> on station signs, route signs, and the official subway map". I don't speak about any one of these, but only about the schedule. What do I miss? Vcohen (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

The trunk line defines the route bullet color. When the route is shortened and not serving the trunk line, then the color becomes the dark gray that is assigned to all shuttles. When the route is re-routed to a different trunk line, the route bullet changes color, regardless of the technical ability of the rolling stock to display that. Most rolling stock does NOT have the ability to change the color of a rerouted train. The most recent permanent change of trunk lines was when the M was re-routed from the Nassau Street line to the Sixth Ave line and changed from brown to orange. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't understand what I don't understand. Are you speaking about designations used on trains? I am not. Are you speaking about colors? I am speaking about both colors and letters. Vcohen (talk) 20:00, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Could you rephrase your "Wonderful" question in different terms? I seem to have misunderstood it and still don't understand what you are asking. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:05, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

You seem to have misunderstood it, that's right.

The A schedule (see two links above) uses three different designations for different variants of the A:

• (A) - for most cases
• <A> - the variant running to Rockaway Park (pages 5 and 6)
• (S) - the Lefferts Boulevard Shuttle (pages 11-13)

The article about the A says: "Five rush hour trips (designated <A> in the schedule) run..." In old versions it was: "Five rush hour trips designated <A> run...", but somebody has come and fixed it, since this designation is used in the schedule only.

A similar thing has to be done with the (S), because it is used in the schedule (only) too.

The article about the S says: "(A) late nights (Lefferts Boulevard Shuttle)". This statement needs a comment too, because in the schedule (only) this shuttle is not (A) but (S). Vcohen (talk) 09:41, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, I see now. I checked the schedule and see that the MTA has changed it again. The schedule used to show service to Lefferts the way the current (Jan 2012) system map shows. Since they don't match, I think that it can stay worded like it is now, "A shuttle to Lefferts, in addition to regular A service to Far Rock". Since the Lefferts Shuttle is included in the A schedule, plus the map depicts those last three stations as served by the A at all times, I removed the "not-designated as S" from the lead. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I planned to mention the usage in the schedule just because it differs from the map, the trains etc. If not, maybe let's remove also the sentence about the <A>. Vcohen (talk) 23:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Here is an evidence that not all shuttles are dark gray. Vcohen (talk) 12:22, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

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Grand Street--57th Avenue Shuttle

I get the feeling this article is missing more shuttles, such as the late-1980's shuttle between Grand Street (IND Sixth Avenue Line) and 57th Street (IND Sixth Avenue Line). Examples here and here. A second Grand Street Shuttle perhaps? ---------User:DanTD (talk) 23:17, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

@DanTD and Epicgenius: This shuttle ran was supposed to run between April 26 and October 26, 1986, but continued until December 11, 1988, during the closure of the north side of the Manhattan Bridge, running between Grand and 57th.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 15:34, 31 March 2019 (UTC)