Talk:Saab 210

List of experimental aircraft

Add here: List_of_experimental_aircraft? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.45.253 (talk) 18:51, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Meaning of "Draken"

"Drake" means not only "kite" but also "dragon" in english.--212.226.40.194 (talk) 16:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)--212.226.40.194 (talk) 16:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

But according to Erik Bratt, the chief designer of the entire SAAB 35 project, the name is referring only to a kite due to its double delta configuration seen from above! He writes about it in his auto biography and I've heard him in person confirming it! Any translation to "Dragon" in English is not correct! --Towpilot (talk) 21:40, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not accept verbal assurances from its editors as reliable sources (see WP:RS). The majority of English-language RS translate it as "Dragon". Do you have a citation to a reliable source which can be used to verify what you are claiming here? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:29, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

English is not your first language and you are clearly not fluent, moreover each language's Wikipedia has different community rules. Here, reliable sources are of high importance. Don't whine about it and run away, learn from an old pro and respect our local policies and guidelines. Keep editing! — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:47, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

The Swedish Armed Forces explains the name here https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/information-och-fakta/var-historia/artiklar/saab-hjarta-flygvapnet/#:~:text=den%20s%C3%A5g%20ut%20som%20en%20pappersdrake%20ovanifr%C3%A5n "den såg ut som en pappersdrake ovanifrån" -> "it looked like a paper kite from above". 151.177.72.48 (talk) 22:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, that is an interesting remark. However the comparison with a pappersdrake appears to be a pun rather than definitive - note that pappersdrake does not have an n on the end. But my Swedish grammar is not that good, so I am willing to be corrected. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 22:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

The name refer to kite (Draken = The Kite), however it also carries the double meaning of dragon. The same thing goes for Saab 37 Viggen, which was named after its canard configuration (Viggen = The Tufted Duck), but also carrying the meaning of Thunderbolt (Åskvigg). Blockhaj (talk) 00:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Can you please give a reliable source or two for your claim that "kite" is "draken" (with an "n") in Swedish? Everywhere I look, the word is "drake". — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

That is just the definitive form of either dragon or kite.

• wikt:sv:drake
• wikt:drake#Swedish
• sv:Drake (leksak)

Blockhaj (talk) 19:53, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, thank you for the clarification. There is now enough sourcing to show that the kite meaning is relevant, thank you for your patience. There may still be some discussion needed to ensure that correct English expression is maintained. After all, this is the English-language Wikipedia and not any other. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:27, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Let's write both then; "draken" translates to both "the dragon" & "the kite". The ending "n" is definite article in Swedish. 192.176.1.79 (talk) 16:06, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I have added the Kite now. But please note that the article lead uses the English common name (per Wikipedia's guidelines), with the literal translation given in the section on naming. Please do not change this without further discussion here. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:47, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Where do Wikipedia's guidelines specify that inflection's should be ignored? Blockhaj (talk) 22:18, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Of course they do not go into that much detail, they are not a treatise on English grammar (If they were that detailed and you had read them, you would also know that there is no apostrophe in "inflections"). They are rather more general and assume that the editor already knows such details of the English language; see for example WP:COMMONNAME and WP:LEDE. (Since you do not, you are out of your depth here and should defer to others who do. Time to move on. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 11:11, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Flygplan 210

With respect to this edit, The Swedish term "Flygplan" literally translates as aeroplane design or project. Wikipedia would normally translate it as "Project 210" if the occasion arose. But mostly, we don't need to, and we certainly don't append "(Fpl)" everywhere. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 12:38, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Flygplan means aeroplane. The number 210 comes from the airforce and is part of their "trial aircraft/testbed series". Basically "Flygplan 210" means "Aeroplane from test series 200, 10th vehicle in series". Previous known aircraft in this series are Flygplan 201 and 202. (Swedish wikipedia article) One could make an argument that Saab 210 on a technical lever is an incorrect name, as Saab didnt choose the number themselves. Although the same could be said for Saab 35 as well, being designated Flygplan 35 in the Swedish air force. Anyway i could upload an few pages from dedicated books about the subject on imgur if u want to take a look at sources using the name Fpl 210 instead of Saab 210.--Blockhaj (talk) 13:22, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I actually found an internet source mentioning the 200-series http://www.artiklar.z-bok.se/robotar.html. Its rare that the series are explained in books as their target audience already knows about them.--Blockhaj (talk) 13:32, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

@Blockhaj: Swearing or making insulting remarks in an edit comment is not acceptable on Wikipedia, I would warn you gently as a friend that if you abuse the edit comments again your account is likely to be sanctioned. Anyway, I restored much of what I had reverted, so what you were so upset about is unclear.

Back on topic, thank you for explaining my poor Swedish. I will try to remember that in future. The military/research aircraft of several countries, including the USA, are known by their type numbers designated by the national authorities, the Swedish usage is nothing special. Be that as it may, "Aircraft 210" is definitely not what appears in English-language RS. So we don't write it here either.

Finally, please note the WP:BRD "Be bold - Revert - Discuss]] guideline for resolving editorial differences. I was doing nothing aggressive or unusual in taking the second step, after you had taken the first. You are entitled to restore again and I will not revert, per WP:3RR, but given your swearing, I would not expect our admins to take that easily. So my strong recommendation to you is that you take it easy and discuss one issue at a time - politely, per WP:ETIQUETTE.

— Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 18:42, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

@Steelpillow: could you please define "swearing" for me. Because i am pretty sure i did not swear in any edit comments, and even then my intent was not to talk down to you or anyone else.

As for what i am upset about. Your edit does not include the historical name Flygplan 210, nor its abbreviation Fpl 210. From a historical point of view these are more common than the name Saab 210. Your edit also lacks in the visual department, only having two images, of which one has two model aircraft hanging in front of it. You also deleted the interesting fact about the ordnance mockups which are displayed on the surviving aircraft in the museum. For an article this small that is something which is of interest.--Blockhaj (talk) 19:03, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

"Aeroplane" is usually just descriptive, you'd need to cite adequate sources for a specific usage in this context, per WP:BURDEN. So we'd need to see the original Swedish, the English translation, and the clear context as a designation and not a mere description. Also, the sources need to be reasonably authoritative, not just some obscure document or enthusiast's blog post. Images are used to inform, not to decorate; they should not overburden the text. The current ones show the difference in intake geometries. I agree that the image in the main infobox would be better if it showed a more general "3D" front three-quarter view, but I haven't found one. If missiles/mockups were fitted to the 210 for test reasons, then say so, otherwise you could note that they are only for museum display purposes. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 11:19, 13 August 2021‎ (UTC) [sig added 21:14, 17 February 2022 (UTC)]

DW, i gave up on this discussion long ago. U kinda ruined the fun of writing Wikipedia for me.--Blockhaj (talk) 21:37, 17 February 2022 (UTC)