Talk:Saab Lofton

Discussion

Does anyone know when was Lofton born?--207.200.116.202 09:36, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Is this guy notable? 68.230.135.102 02:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd say he's notable, he wrote a few books. I met him today, quite an interesting character. Decided to look him up. 24.22.229.243 10:06, 1 July 2007 (UTC)Chris Jr.

Most if not all of the information here was lifted directly off of his website, written by him.

Check under "the personal" part of his website. The paragraph dealing with his history is taken verbatim from there. 71.217.2.24 21:04, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Complaint from subject

We got an emailed complaint from the subject of the article. I've referred it to WP:BLPN. In the meantime, the article has no third-party references and badly needs some - David Gerard (talk) 18:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Propose deletion

I've looked into the books listed in the bibliography... The first was published by a small defunct anarchist publisher which describes itself as publishing "pamphlets", sold out and was not reprinted. The second was described by Pop Occulture Magazine as "obviously a low-budget and quite-possibly home-printed affair". There is no evidence that either of these books received a credible review, much less meet WP:BOOK. Journalists are a dime-a-dozen and not automatically notable, and these books don't appear to establish notability either.

Therefore I am proposing deletion of the article. If the tag is remove, would someone please nominate for deletion? I can't as I can't create the deletion page... 67.67.219.223 (talk) 19:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it. I also find it a little hard to believe that he was kicked out of San Francisco State for writing a novel that was "too radical." :-) Steve Dufour (talk) 20:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I went looking for sources, didn't find any, agreed with proposed deletion.-- phoebe / (talk to me) 18:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Greetings. I'm fairly new to Wikipedia editing, but I went ahead and tried to get the entry to comply to the biography guidelines. I'd figured it'd be good practice. If there's enough there to keep it from deletion, perhaps someone could suggest ways I could improve it further? Thanks for everyone's time and consideration. Potemkin01 (talk) 23:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

See WP:BIO. 67.67.219.223 (talk) 02:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

He's written two books, and people have said on this talk page that they've come here looking for information about him. That would seem to make him notable. I did read the notable article. My revision added information and many sources, and he's been the subject of quite a few interviews, etc. I would like to revert back to the previous revision...Potemkin01 (talk) 03:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Most of your sources were no good. You can't use links to the book's publisher for example, or to amazon.com, to establish any thing. The publisher is not independent, and amazon is a commercial site which we can't link to. You can't just link to the newspapers or websites that the subject has worked for or published on. To establish notability, you have to provide multiple independent reliable sources by third parties who have written about the subject. Having had a couple of books published does not make the person notable. Read about verifiability, reliable sources, how to cite, what make a book notable, etc. 67.67.219.223 (talk) 22:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

We also do not allow text anchored links like this, Wikipedia, in the body of the text. All such external links belong at the end of the article in the external links section. Also, sentence like "Joe Blow wrote for The New York Times" is still an unsupported assertion. You must link not just to the main page for the paper for which he allegedly worked, but to some proof that he worked there, typically either a biography of the subject or at least a staff list that includes him. So, you would say, "The subject worked for such and such a company between 1999 and 2002.[link to a reliable source which says the same]. That's not really what you did. You still need to spend some time learning Wikipedia requirements. I suspect when you learn what kind of sources an article requires, you will understand that this subject has not yet attained the necessary notability. 67.67.219.223 (talk) 22:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I really appreciate your taking the time to explain everything. I will do much more reading. Potemkin01 (talk) 07:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Section break

OK. 67.67.219.223, I don't think you're helping matters by reverting Potemkin's well-intentioned edits to break the article into sections. The article already had a references needed tag; I think that's good enough for now.

Potemkin01, I think you were on the right track, but as you can see this is a particularly controversial biography, and there may not be enough good sources out there to salvage it. What 67.67.219.223 says about sourcing is pretty much true; we need more outside sources than the publisher.

As for the subject, someone who is presumably Saab Lofton left me a long message on my talk page about the comments made in the proposed deletion thread, above. Take that as you will. He feels like someone is harassing him with this article.

As far as the article itself goes, I think that if we can't find good sources documenting Lofton's life and body of work that we take the article to AfD, per BLP policy, and perhaps consider starting afresh later. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 04:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

(cut unneeded uncivil comments)

Hey. This is not a forum for personally attacking the subject of the article. If you have something constructive or civil to say about the article itself, great. Otherwise, please don't insult the subject of the article. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 06:35, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

phoebe - Thank you so much for your comments. As I replied to 67.67.219.223, I will try to be more knowledgeable in the future and read up more on the different policies. I will also try to find more secondary sources.

a note from a propaganda press editor

as an editor on propaganda press i must say that whoever is filing these complaints saab lofton has some personal vendetta against lofton as can be seen in his writings "You think it’s everyone else’s fault. That the white man is keeping you down? Take responsibility for yourself. Whitey doesn’t owe you shit niggah!" that's a direct quote read here along with the tons of comments on our site from this person using many aliases, hundreds others have ended up in the spam bin as it's the same comments over and over and over again on each article written by saab lofton. this person is a stalker. whatever is the cause of this stalking i have no idea, but a 'normal' person does not engage in this type of behaviour and i do not know saab lofton. his writings are published on our site and others have met him, i personally have not. in summary, there are lots of passive aggressive types who use the internet to go after people just because they can. then of course build up their own warped rationale that's my 2 cents

nelly avila moreno

THIS IS SAAB LOFTON AND I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR STANDING UP FOR ME. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, "this person is a stalker ... a 'normal' person does not engage in this type of behaviour." IT'S A FAR CRY FROM SIMPLY SAYING, "He feels like someone is harassing him with this article."

Sources

I see that the entry has been reorganized and protected. I think I can provide some sources for the new entry.

Here is a URL to Lofton's alumni page at Evergreen State College: http://www.evergreen.edu/alumni/writersproject/saablofton.htm, alternatively he is listed on the "Alumni Writers Project" page, also at Evergreen State: http://www.evergreen.edu/alumni/writersproject/home.htm

As far as needing a citation for his City Life column, I did a search for authors between 2001 and 2006 (I don't know when he started, but he left sometime in 2005) and came up with many links to his different stories [1]. Would a link to any of these be of use, or do you need something that actually lists him as a contributor? Thanks. Potemkin01 (talk) 08:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

check links most are non working. He was on radio for only aprox 30 days according to station. his comic book three zerox sheets stapled together. his book self published 500 quantity.

This is Saab Lofton. First, I was on the air from August of 2004 to October of 2004, more than "30 days." Second, there have been far more than 500 copies of my comic over the years. Third, it's clear y'all think poverty negates notoriety -- since I'd have been on the air longer if I could afford the airtime and since the comic was self-published as opposed to being put out by a corporation. The take home message seems to be that Wikipedia only considers you worthy and impressive if the rich and powerful finance your work. How sad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.56.34 (talk) 23:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC) This is Saab Lofton again. The definition of a professional is someone who can live off of his/her work because the quality level is just that high and I haven't worked a day job since 2002. There are plenty of people who write and draw as a HOBBY (some of them may even work for Wikipedia), but I do it for a LIVING. How is that notable? Read my work (saablofton.org) and you'll see that I make Rev. Jeremiah Wright look like Steppin Fetchit -- so to be that radical and STILL pay all my bills every month amidst a climate where a handful of right-wing corporations own every major MASS media outlet there is ..? That's the stuff of legend ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.99.224 (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, congratulations. "Anyone can edit Wikipedia," indeed! As I suspected, the one editor calling for the deletion of my entry was none other than the STALKER ...

http://www.saablofton.org/announcement.html

... evidently, when he realized he couldn't vandalize it from the outside, he did the Trojan Horse thing and tried deleting it from the inside. How do I know this? No sooner than I posted onto the discussion board a youtube site where a speech of mine was did he hop onto its comment section in order to continue harassing me and spreading lies as he has for months now. Great. Just great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.113.99.224 (talk) 19:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

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