Talk:Sabantuy

Why "Tatarça köräş"? There is a direct translation "Tatar-style wrestling". Alaudo 18:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Removing

Why are you removing about the celebration of this holiday among the Bashkira and Chuvashes? What is wrong in those statements? --Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 06:29, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

pronunciation

I removed all the "English" pronunciations, which weren't English. I highly doubt the "Tatar" pronunciations are Tatar either. I'll try fixing them up if I get a chance, but I'll be editing out of ignorance. If anyone else can correct them, that would be better. kwami (talk) 21:07, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi! I've added IPAs there "as I pronounce", there is no sources providing the pronunciation of that terms in English, as nobody wrote in English about them prior me :)--Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 05:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The main problem are the tone marks (`). I assume you meant stress, but I can't tell which syllables are supposed to be stressed. There are similar problems at Utameshgaray of Kazan and Yuxa. kwami (talk) 07:24, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The stress is always to the last syllable, however i wasn't familiar enough with IPA when wrote this and mistakenly used tones. In some places I think i should place more correct IPAs. Another question is should the closest English pronunciation be added for people who know only IPA chart for English?--Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 11:54, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay. Often when people mess up stress marks, they put them after the syllable like in US dictionaries instead of before, so I'm never sure what they meant. Especially when I don't have much time, I just take them as dubious and move on.

Officially, we shouldn't make stuff up, like ad hoc pronunciation guides. It's not encyclopedic, and counts as WP:OR. Personally, I don't like it because English equivalents to foreign pronunciations are misleading; in fact, we have a couple non-IPA spelling pronunciation systems, but the MOS specifically cautions they're for English only. If you want a basic guide for people, a verbal description is probably better ('stress on final syllable', kh as in Bach, y as u in French rue, etc.).

By the way, the IPA stress marks are now at the bottom right of the edit window if you choose 'IPA'. kwami (talk) 12:32, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, ʓ is not an IPA symbol. What is it supposed to represent? kwami (talk) 12:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

It was a ʑ. In fact, sources for Tatar IPA are confusing. For example, one state [e], another [ɪ], but comparing with more accurate IPA charts for related languages (Chuvash and Kazakh) I have found that in all Tatar IPAs [e] should be changed to [ɘ], and still not clear should be [ɤ] instead of [ɯ], [ɵ] instead of [œ] or [ø]. I know what sounds they are, but IPA isn't used for Tatar in any publications, as it has phonetic orthography.--Üñţïf̣ļëŗ (see also:ә? Ә!) 18:45, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

That's assuming Chuvash and Kazakh sound exactly like Tatar, with no differences in accent. What we have (apart from ʑ) is probably good enough; if we're not sure on an exact narrow transcription, it's probably best to stick with the more general letters, so we don't mislead the reader into thinking things are more precise than they are. The place to address this would be Tatar language, and once it's settled there, we can bring articles like this into line. kwami (talk) 20:14, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Etimology

According to another version, "Saban" comes from "Çaban" ~ šubān, "shepherd" letters. "guardian of cattle" is the name of a shepherd, sheep and other livestock in Russia (in the South, in Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Kazakhstan, Buryatia, Udmurtia and others), in Kazakhstan in the second month was April, at this time there was a holiday called "Saban" - when cattle were released for the first time after winter.

The original source - pers. šubān (kirg. чабан, kaz. шопан (şopan), uzb. cho'pon (чўпон, çöpon), crim tat. çoban, turkm. çopon, azer. çoban, rom. cioban, bulg. чобан (čoban) ; chuv. чӑпан / чупан (çäpan).

"Saban Tui" - originally meant the feast of pastoralists, shepherds. When the nomadic Turks (Tatars) got into the environment of the Finno-Ugric agricultural population, the holiday became agricultural. The first grazing of the Turkic nomads began in the spring in April, when winter and snow had passed. Adolsin Pattarsen (talk) 02:37, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

The main prize at the sabantuy was symbolically a Ram. Adolsin Pattarsen (talk) 02:40, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

In the Crimean Tatar language Saban is the month of March. Adolsin Pattarsen (talk) 02:58, 3 November 2023 (UTC)