Talk:Sabre saw

I don't know much about these things (my knowledge is mostly in the area of hand tools) but from what this entry says, I can't tell how a powered sabre saw is different from a Reciprocating saw. Could someone with greater knowledge of the subject explain this and, if necessary, suggest a merge? cbustapeck 19:24, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

--Erlyrisa 05:14, 23 July 2006 (UTC) has changed Reciprocating saw - to be more definitive, and less like an advert. - could use drawing of the recprocating action, and a definition of reciprocating action.

A sabre saw traditionialy refers to what has become known as a jigsaw. It is a handheld saw which is gripped above or around the saw body, the blade moving up and down perpendicular to the saw body. This article is incorrect. The saw referred to as a reciprocating saw is typicaly now referred to as a "sawzaw". It is a larger and longer saw which has a blade which moves inline with the body of the saw. A jigsaw is actually a benchtop saw with a circular blade and a cast iron table, the piece being cut is rotated around the blade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orson1492 (talk • contribs) 01:42, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

^^Nope. While the first part is right, that last thing you're talking about is now definately a scroll saw. Jigsaw is specifically handheld. Same as a sabre saw, which is an older term. If there is a difference it's that old sabre saws were bulkier than today's smaller more precise jigsaws and as stated in the article were used on jobsites for quick cutting of materials where circular sawing was impractical. Now this is done with sawzalls and the like, the jigsaw has evolved to more precision use and often incorporate a scrolling feature in the head. In fact this article should really be deleted or its content sent to the the jigsaw page. you go looking for a sabre saw you are going to get a lot of confusion and litle else. This guy gives a pretty good analysis- woodworking.about.JigsawSabreSaw. Batvette (talk) 23:17, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Craftsman still makes tools that they call "Sabre Saws" and also "Jigsaws," and they are practically identical in appearance. The difference is that the Saber Saw has a blade that can be rotated with a knob and the Jigsaw does not. But they are definitely NOT a "Sawzall" style reciprocating saw. They are like subcategories of the same basic thing. So basically over the years the Jigsaw and Reciprocating Saw (Sawzall) have both been referred to with the term "Sabre Saw" at one point or another, and not always consistently by the companies that even make the things. Gol Stoan (talk) 21:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Sabre saw and jig saw are the same thing. The sabre saw article should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.37.240.148 (talk) 18:11, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Sabre saw may be a trademark. Kortoso (talk) 20:53, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

In the UK at least, the Jigsaw power tool is one where the blade stands vertically to the piece being worked on. The Sabre saw is another term for a Reciprocating saw which is to say, it is used with the blade running parallel to the object being sawn in the way that a traditional hand saw is.

Reciproacting / Sabre Saw

Jigsaw CPBearfoot (talk) 14:40, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

In Canada/USA, "sabre saw" is generally not used anymore. From my experience, when it was used, it mainly referred to saws that would be called a "jig saw" today. Here is an example of what I would call a vintage "jig saw" that was marketed as a "sabre saw" (by Sears, marketing on the saw and box "Craftsman Sabre Saw" - model 31527941):

Sears Craftsman Sabre Saw

In North America, the saw you show in the picture in the sabre saw article would be referred to as a "reciprocating saw" or a "sawzall" (I'll refer to them as sawzalls from here on for clarity, though I know that is a trade name). I have never heard of a sawzall referred to as a "sabre saw" here, only jigsaws have been called "sabre saws" in my experience.

As an aside (for further ambiguation/disambiguation), the term "jig saw" was also regularly used to refer to what we would now usually call a "scroll saw" (bench-top or stand mounted, not hand held).

All of these saws reciprocate to cut. The main physical differences between a sawzall and a jigsaw are the body shape/relationship of the handle to the saw (how it is held, 1 hand vs 2), and the size of the sole plate relative to the body length. The usage is also significantly different: a jigsaw is generally used for cutting relatively neat/precision curves in thin stock, whereas a sawzall is primarily used for demolition and rough cuts in thick stock (eg 2x, 4x, metal bars/beams/pipes etc).

CPBearfoot makes a good point in that there does seem to be some international variation in the terminology. If you search "sabre saw" at homedepot.ca, you get: "Search Results 0 results for "sabre saw"" but if you search "saber saw" you get 1 hit for a jigsaw blade. If you do the same at homedepot.com, you get 86 hits for powered saws, most of which are jigsaws, and none of which are sawzalls, and all blade hits were jigsaw type, not for sawzalls including Bosch. In the UK, you do get hits for both sawzalls and blades with both spellings and no jigsaws. In North America, if you asked for a "sabre saw" in a store you'd most likely be shown jig saws, but quite possibly you'd be shown sawzalls in the UK/Europe?

I would suggest that where there seem to be international differences in this naming, the international disambiguation could be added to both the jigsaw article and the reciprocating saw article. A well constructed sentence or 2 in either or both of the jig saw and reciprocating saw articles should suffice. The "sabre saw" article is probably not useful or needed and should be removed imho.

If the sabre saw article was to be continued, it should, at a minimum, include photos (like the one I linked to) showing various saws that are/were actually marketed as sabre saws... and at least in North America, that would mean vintage power tools... pictures of a variety of saws from different markets would clearly demonstrate the lack of clarity in this particular terminology.

Roscoejr (talk) 14:03, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

References

A few additional links

The first two links go to articles exploring the history of the terms 'sabre saw' and 'jigsaw'; the following youtube link shows a proffessional using the term 'saber saw' to refer to a flat decked 'jigsaw style' device:

·http://www.thesawguy.com/sabre-saw-vs-jigsaw/

·http://www.props.eric-hart.com/features/saber-saw-vs-jig-saw/

·https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQL2pvS3VI

--2607:FCC8:D603:1600:219:D1FF:FE37:7A4B (talk) 18:10, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Why this should be a disambiguation page

I reading over the discussion above, it seemed clear that there are two different things that are referred to as sabre saws: a jigsaw (power tool) (an old-fashioned US usage); and a reciprocating saw (a UK/Canadian usage) a.k.a. Sawzall (brand). Let me summarize the contributions above:

• Considers a sabre saw to be like a reciprocating saw

@Cbustapeck: @CPBearfoot: @Andy Dingley: (based this and other edits)

• Considers a sabre saw to be like a jigsaw

@Orson1492: @Batvette: @Gol Stoan: @45.37.240.148: @Roscojr: @2607:FCC8:D603:1600:219:D1FF:FE37:7A4B:

No one in this discussion has claimed that a sabre saw is a third kind of saw, neither a jigsaw nor a reciprocating saw, so under WP rules, there should not be a separate article. Since it can mean one or the other in different variants of English, it seems natural to make this into a disambiguation page. Which I did, but Andy Dingley quickly reverted, with the comment "There's no confusion with jigsaws." In fact, Dingley's preferred version uses the same image as is used on the reciprocating saw page, so I don't understand why he wants a separate article here.

Discussion? --Macrakis (talk) 00:01, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

• There are also scroll saws (bench-mounted machines, rather than hand-held tools), which are known as that in the US and the UK, but are also sometimes called jigsaws. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:07, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

• Some of this problem is because there is no good, single name for these saws. Everyone knows what they mean by one, but the names just don't agree. "Sawzall" is good, because that was one of the first produced, but that's a genericised tradename and WP is against those.

Here's a big UK trade retailer: reciprocating saw Similarly for the other similar chain: [1]. Also the big domestic retailer [2]

Others prefer Sabre saw [3] [4]. I've never seen "Sabre saw" allied to the small-blade, long-base jigsaw, only the US spelling as "Saber saw".

The trouble is that "reciprocating saw" is a terrible name. Saws have reciprocated under power since medieval times. I've got about four different sorts in the workshop, just as the handhelds, and there are plenty of large fixed machines too. It might meet COMMONNAME in the UK (I make no comment on the US), but it's a poor name. The reciprocating saw article should stay generic.

Jigsaw (power tool) though (and there's a dupe at Jigsaw (tool) which needs merging) is pretty clear as the small-blade, long-base form. There's no real challenge to that as a viable name (even if they're also called "saber saws" as well).

So, we're left needing a good name for this type of saw. Sabre saw works for that – and note that it's sabre saw, not saber saw.

This isn't perfect. There is some small scope for confusion, with one alternative name, under another spelling, for a type of saw that we have a clearly different article. But we'd still need to find a name for this article, and our only vaguely possible choices would be sabre, saber, Sawzall or reciprocating: all of which would be worse than the current. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:30, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

I see your point about reciprocating saw being too generic a name.

Good, then, we agree that there are two classes of saw at issue, not three: power jigsaws and Sawzalls. Then there is the generic category of reciprocating power saws, which includes jigsaws, Sawzalls, scroll saws, industrial lumbermill saws with linear blades, etc.

Currently, we have three articles: jigsaw (power tool), sabre saw, and reciprocating saw.

We also agree that jigsaw (power tool) is a fine name for one of them.

The only question remaining then is what to call the article about Sawzall-class tools.

Clearly we shouldn't use the trade name. So what name should we use?

• In the US, these are generally called "reciprocating saws", which is in many ways a ridiculous name because it is too generic, as you point out, but on the other hand, it really is the WP:COMMONNAME. They are never called sabre or saber saws in the US.
• In the past, jigsaws were also called saber/sabre saws, but that is uncommon nowadays. Still, it can lead to confusion.
• In the UK, both the name "reciprocating saw" and the name "sabre saw" are used for them, as you say. Let's look at which is predominant. On toolstop.co.uk, "sabre saw" gives 5 Sawzall-type saws and blades. "Reciprocating saw", on the other hand, gives 50, all in the Sawzall class (not some more generic reciprocating saw). How about B&Q? Sabre saw returns 27 results, every one of which is called a "reciprocating saw" in its description -- the word "sabre/saber" does not appear at all in the results.
• Strangely, the spelling "sabre saw" is not found at all in in Google Ngrams' GB corpus. Not sure how to interpret that.
• The name sabre/saber saw is becoming less popular both in the US and in the UK.

Given that the name "reciprocating saw" is the only name used in the US, and appears to be the more common name in the UK as well, it seems like the obvious candidate. Sabre saw is not only uncommon and becoming less popular in both the US and the UK, but it can also mean a jigsaw.

That leaves the question of where to put the generic article on reciprocating saws. In the current article Reciprocating saw, the name "oscillating saw" is used. Unfortunately, this is yet another category of saw, used in both construction and in surgery, where the excursion is small enough that it will cut rigid or brittle materials, but not soft tissue. It currently redirects to Multi-tool (power tool).

Perhaps we need a parenthetical specifier either for the generic or the specific tool? Reciprocating saw (power tool) vs. Reciprocating saw? Seems clumsy.... --Macrakis (talk) 17:44, 25 November 2019 (UTC)