Talk:Safavid conversion of Iran to Shia Islam

Poorly worded?

Is the first paragraph's use of the word "onslaught" biased? I'm quite new to Wikipedia, so I wanted to check with some people first before I edited it to a less aggressive/hostile word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.197.151 (talk) 23:12, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

- Seconded.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bearsca (talk • contribs) 18:45, 30 January 2017 (UTC) 

Further to the above, these two passages are slanted. “During the reign of Nader Shah, an anti-Shiite policy was implemented…” “He implemented the following anti-Shia policies…” As the article itself shows, Nader Shah was hardly "anti-Shiite" but pro assimilation of Shii into the fifth accepted school of Sunni Islam. He was a pragmatist, and wasn't as sectarian as whoever wrote this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.100.222.42 (talk) 03:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Apparent Plagiarism

The Reasons for Ismail’s conversion policy appears to be written(copy/pasted) verbatim from the references given. This section needs to be re-written immediately. --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:23, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

i do not understand why this section has been marked as "copied and pasted." is not the section that has been "copied and pasted" taken from sources that are classified as Public domain (since the sources of the information are all from google books)? would not this fact exempt it from being classified as "copied and pasted"? perhaps i am missing something, but i believe the section under scrutiny should have the "copied and pasted" tag removed. i would like to have further clarification of this issue as quickly as is possible. over.Neda Reza Azad (talk) 02:27, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Plagiarism is not tolerated on wikipedia.

"One of the main reasons for such rigor by Isma'il and his followers was to give Iran ideological distinction and identity vis-a-vis its Sunni military-political enemies, the Ottoman Empire and, for a time the Central Asian Uzbek." -- Modern Iran: roots and results of revolution, by Nikki R. Keddie, Yann Richard, p.11

You wrote, One of the main reasons for such rigor by Ismail and his followers, was to give Iran ideological and political distinction and identity and to distinguish Iran vis-à-vis its two neighboring Sunni Turkish military-political enemies, the Ottoman Empire to the west and, for a time, the Central Asian Uzbeks to the north-east. Which is exactly from the book, which is plagiarism.

Next, "This was only one of several wars between Iranians and the Ottomans, a long struggle providing continue encouragement for the Safavids to strengthen the Shi'i identity of Iran. -- Modern Iran: roots and results of revolution", by Nikki R. Keddie, Yann Richard, p11.

You wrote, Several wars between the Iranians and Ottomans, which were a long struggle, provided continual encouragement for the Safavids to strengthen the Shia identity of Iran. In this case you simply left off This was only one of and copied the rest of the sentence. More plagiarism.

Next, "The Shiitization of Iran was part of the process of constructing a territorialized state apparatus." -- The failure of political Islam, by Olivier Roy, Carol Volk, p170.

You wrote, The Shiitization of Iran was part of the process of constructing a territorialized state apparatus. Completely copying what was said in the book. More plagiarism.

All of this should be removed immediately, instead I'm being cordial and asking for you to re-write the plagiarized section. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:04, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Not everything on Google Books is public domain. I'm browsing a book right now that's copyrighted just like any other book would be. Even if it were a public domain book, though, it would still be plagiarism. -- Soap ^Talk/_{Contributions} 04:18, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

i will get to re-writing the copy-pasted part as soon as i am able. kansas bear, i truly appreciate your entrusting me firstly to improve the article i created for wikipedia. this makes me feel very valued in the wiki community and trusted to act responsibly. thankyou very much. Neda Reza Azad (talk) 07:03, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Shia's were always the majority among persians of the western plain

yeah :P--108.173.174.134 (talk) 03:54, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

proof 2A02:C7C:507D:0:35AC:1CA4:70FE:AA8D (talk) 12:50, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Bunch of Bullshit Regarding Nader Shah

He wanted to develope more positive relations with Sunnis. That doesnt mean he converted to Sunni. Jafari is a Shia sect. He wanted Ottomans to accept it as the only righteous shia sect. What the hell is Jafari Sunni? Thats an oximoron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.88.139.198 (talk) 00:52, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Bibi Shahrbanu "narrative" by Teepusultan / IP 39.41.230.109

I'll just leave this here:

• "The legend of Šahrbānū as “Mother of the Nine Imams,” which goes back to at least the ninth century a.d., has some importance in Shiʿite tradition, but no historical basis, and no version of it associates this putative daughter of Yazdegerd III with Ray." -- Mary Boyce (1989). "BĪBĪ ŠAHRBĀNŪ". Vol. IV, Fasc. 2, p. 198[1]
• "ŠAHRBĀNU (lit. “Lady of the Land,” i.e., of Persia), said to be the daughter of Yazdgerd III (r. 632-51), the last Sasanian king. According to the beliefs of the Shiʿites, in particular the Twelvers or Imamis, but also of a substantial number of Sunnis, she became the principal wife of the third Imam, Ḥosayn b. ʿAli, and the mother of the fourth Imam, ʿAli b. Ḥosayn b. ʿAli Zayn al-ʿĀbedin (q.v.). Consequently, the lineage of Imams, from the fourth to twelfth and final, would be her progeny. The personality of this saintly figure, especially revered in Persia, seems noteworthy and important in relationships that link Imami Shiʿism to pre-Islamic Persia. Although undeniably legendary, the Sasanian princess, “mother of the Imams,” would have played a significant role in the transmission of religious ideas in Persia (regarding the subject in general, see Amir-Moezzi 2002a and 2002b)." -- Mohammad Ali Amir-Moezzi (2005). "ŠAHRBĀNU" Enc. Iranica.[2]

In short, what we're dealing with right here,[3]-[4]-[5]-[6] is a fictional story which Teepusultan and IP 39.41.230.109 try to present as a historic fact. - LouisAragon (talk) 19:49, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Its also interesting to note that user "Teepusultan" returned after 3,5 years to Wikipedia, solely to reinstate the edits originally made by IP 39.41.230.109. His last edit prior to editing this page on 1 December 2020, was on 20 April 2017. Peculiar to say the least! - LouisAragon (talk) 19:55, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

How many modern day Iranians actually know this happened to them and their ancestors? I worry there may be a repression of this information getting out as it would threaten the current Iranian regime

Can we have a section looking into the statistics of how many Iranians know of their Sunni heritage and the forced conversions that happened to their ancestors? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.199.31 (talk) 20:19, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Unreliability of sources

This entire article is written built on carefully selected sources to push certain agenda and proof the points presented. For example, Daniel W. Brown used as a source is a person who grew up in Pakistan and who is privately a Sunni Muslim influenced by Deobandism. Using him as a source in this subject, is not reliable at all. Ottomans, and overall Sunnis, had a stake in demonising Shia Islam and the Safavid rule. From this article, we learn that one day, out of nowhere, a minority Shias conquered entire country and out of nowhere decided to kill all the Sunnis. The background doesn’t mention at all previous persecutions and massacres of Shias in Persia and the wider region. This article is nothing but a propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2406:E003:831:6D01:843B:CFC:39D0:631F (talk) 20:14, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

This Article has problems

The first is that many of the sources seem rather suspect. They're tangentially related and mention the conversion off handily. The focus of these sources definitely aren't on the conversion itself. They just state that there was a forced conversion. I don't see any sources that actually discuss the demographics of Iran in the 15th and 16th centuries. This is how a high school student cites their sources.

Second I have a big problem with "the conversion also ensured the dominance of the Twelver sect within Shiism over the sects of Zaidiyyah and Ismailism – each of whom had previously experienced their own eras of dominance within Shiism". Twelver Shi'ism also had eras of dominance in Iran. The Zaidis only dominated in the early Islamic era. For the most part part these dynasties either converted to Twelver Shi'ism or were replaced by Twelver Shi'ite dynasties. The vast majority of the minor dynasties in the north were Twelver Shia centuries before the Safavids. So Northern Iran was a Twelver stronghold. Also one of these dynasties the Buyids expanded to control Western Iran and Iraq in the 10th and 11th centuries. The Buyids were the largest Twelver dynasty before the Safavids. It was during this era where the influential twelver shia scholars set about to formalize the sect. Many of these were Persians. They were toppled by the Seljuks a staunchly Sunni dynasty that legitimized itself by "rescuing" the Caliph from the Buyids. They persecuted the Shi'ites but that isn't mentioned here because it would go against this article. Anyway during the Post-Ilkhanate era a dynasty with remarkable similarities to the Safavids appeared. They were the Sarbadars. They were an odd dynasty that came about due to a rebellion led by a shi'ite religious order supported by locals. There was obviously a large population of Twelver Shi'ites and Ismail took advantage of this large Twelver Shia base to establish a dynasty over Iran.

Also amusing that one of the sources is from a CIA agent. William Leonard Langler. I can't think of a bigger conflict of interest than that. This article is propaganda and needs heavy revisions — Preceding unsigned comment added by AMK999 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)