Talk:Saif al-Islam Gaddafi

Comments in August 2007

This is all we have on Saif al-Islam??? I'm adding an External link - a really good one. Simesa 05:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Who's his mother?

It is very strange that his mother is not mentioned. Who is she? Is she unknown? Jahibadkaret (talk) 00:29, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I have copied the answer given in the Arabic Wikipedia. Luwilt (talk) 00:37, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Move needs to be justified

The article was today moved by Alwad7 from Saif al-Islam al-Gaddafi on the basis that Saif is "widely known as" Saif al-Islam Muammar. Please provide a citation to justifying this move.---PJHaseldine (talk) 12:01, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

As given on his personal website and the official Libyan News Agency, citation, plus the article shows that he's the son of Muammar al-Gaddafi.
In Allah We Trust.--Alwad7 (User talk:Alwad7) 15:37, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

But this citation gives his name as "Saif Al-Islam Muammar Gaddafi", which means that the "Gaddafi" part of his name has been omitted. Saif's name is being corrected accordingly.---PJHaseldine (talk) 17:39, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

You didn't Understand what i meant, By Providing the Citation I wanted to show that Muammar is a part of his name, thus only calling him Saif Muammar- as it is the case localy- would be correct, the reason syllable Gaddafi was added, is because it's the name of the foundation [GDF]. SaiF Al-Islam Muammar is a Correct Name, Full Name is shown for further detial.

and Please Justify your omitting of the "Dr." from his name, and Changing it to Gaddafi instead of Al-Gaddafi. In Allah We Trust 02:31, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move. DrKiernan (talk) 13:39, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

---

Saif al-Islam Muammar Al-Gaddafi → Saif al-Islam Gaddafi — This article has been moved many many times over the last few years, without a proper discussion, so a discussion is now opened. 65.95.14.96 (talk) 01:08, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Google news results

• "Saif al-Islam Muammar Al-Gaddafi" : 0 hits
• "Saif Gaddafi" : 30 hits
• "Saif al-Gaddafi" : 5 hits
• "Saif al-Gadhafi" : 1 hit
• "Saif Gadhafi" : 9 hits
• "Saif al-Islam Gadhafi" : 28 hits
• "Saif al-Islam Gaddafi" : 800 hits
• "Saif al-Islam al-Gadhafi" : 1 hit
• "Saif al-Islam al-Gaddafi" : 22 hits

65.95.14.96 (talk) 01:14, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Support. Few news sources seem to be including the "Muammar" part. Ucucha 01:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Why the Muammar in the title? His name is given as Saif al-Islam Gaddafi. -- 92.4.54.146 (talk) 18:59, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

• Comment See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Arabic) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Arabic). The latter should perhaps be revived. ^walk victor falk ^talk 06:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Daily Telegraph libel suit

Most of the text of this section is a testimonial about the 1986 bombing of Libya and has nothing to do with the subject of that section.--84.108.213.97 (talk) 11:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, as it is, the following sentence after that quote seems like a non-sequitor. That section needs to be re-written.68.94.91.172 (talk) 21:08, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 8890bottle, 22 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

In the education section, following "and a PhD from London School of Economics in 2008, awarded for a thesis entitled "The Role of civil society in the democratisation of global governance institutions: from 'soft power' to collective decision-making?"" please add "Evidence has since come to light that the PhD was plagiarized and may be withdrawn."

See here: http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/02/is-this-irony-or-absurdity-saif-al-islam-al-qadhafis-disseration.html

And here: http://saifalislamgaddafithesis.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

8890bottle (talk) 19:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Neither of those are reliable sources. The first is a blog, and the second is an open wiki; neither meet the guidelines for reliable sources. If you do get a reliable source, please make a new edit request with that information. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:48, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

The "extemporaneous" speech

The word 'extemporaneous' in the first sentence of the "2011 Libyan protests" section should be deleted, or at least taken in quotes. As can be seen in this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piEslrLNSoQ - he is repeatedly glancing at something lying on the desk in front of him. Could it be... I don't know... a list of points to make?..

Also, I don't know if the exact time the speech began is all that important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.92.180.248 (talk) 15:25, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Context

A section in this article begins as follows:

Having lost the case, The Daily Telegraph was[.....]

This is incomprehensible. It says "Having lost the case" when no "case" has ever been mentioned in the article. Michael Hardy (talk) 04:37, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Masters in Political Philosophy (2003) LSE as well as PhD

Our article on LSE Libya Links asserts he has a Masters in Pol Philosophy from LSE. Do we have any ref on this? (Msrasnw (talk) 20:49, 12 March 2011 (UTC))

Not dead

The BBC are reporting that it is the sixth son (born 1982) and not this one, the second one, who has died in a NATO attack. Confusingly that are both called Saif. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.68.45 (talk) 22:54, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Saif al-Arab is reported dead; Saif al-Islam is not. Let's assume that there'll be a bunch of mistaken edits unless there's a disambiguation added at the top of the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.37.196.149 (talk) 22:56, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I guess one of the main problems is that Saif al-Islam Gaddafi is quite a prominent figure in the west whereas Saif al-Arab Gaddafi (who has actually been reported dead) is not as well known. I agree that people are going to keep mistakenly making this edit as a result. Bandanamerchant (talk) 23:25, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Is he really Gaddafi's son?

He's completely bald at only 39. (92.7.3.54 (talk) 12:18, 22 August 2011 (UTC))

That's funny, but please stick to cited information that can improve the article. ~ AdvertAdam ^talk 17:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Mohammed is bald too, so how come the Colonel has a full head of hair? (92.7.3.54 (talk) 18:24, 22 August 2011 (UTC))

Baldness isn't necessarily determined by the father's appearance.ChristopherGregory (talk) 01:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

At his capture Muammar Gaddafi was wearing a wig. Only part of his hair was his own. Entropeter (talk) 10:53, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

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Not captured

He hasn't been captured by rebel forces, and has appeared greeting Gaddafi loyalists and by journalists held by the govenrment in the Rixo Hotel in Tripoli. Sky news article--Welshsocialist (talk) 01:39, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

He may have been in custody and then escaped, as Muhammed is reported to have done. This is speculation I'm hearing on Al Jazeera Live. Nothing citable. Editrix71 (talk) 02:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Another possibiity could be that some sources were lying about the incident in the first place. Who really knows? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.116.199 (talk) 06:01, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

I've actually heard another NTC representative stating today that it was a tactic to know where he is. I lost track and didn't write the time and name. Just waiting to see if any media repeats the statement. ~ AdvertAdam ^talk 20:40, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

LSE latest

We need an update with regard to the status of his PhD. Given the embarrassment caused to the LSE by its financial links to the Gadaffis, you would think they would go ahead and revoke his PhD over the plagiarism that has been demonstrated, so as to distance themselves from him and cling to whatever shreds of academic integrity they have left at that institution. The article says that pressure has been put on the LSE, but there is nothing about the outcome of this. Could anyone who knows update the article? Beorhtwulf (talk) 16:56, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Every piece of work has a plagiarism rating when it is run through detection software such as TurnItIn. 6% is actually an exceptionally low score - one that would normally be accounted for by references, quotations, and short phrases that the software failed to exclude. To imply that a 6% rating is 'plagiarism' is absurd: the reference to Channel 4 'finding' that 6% of the thesis was "copied from other sources" should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.15.222.151 (talk) 16:50, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Saif al-Islam offered to surrender to The Hague?

According to the Bulgarian bTV (alturl.com/wjwuf) Gaddafi's son, Saif al-Islam, offered to surrender to The Hague Court with the former head of Libyan intelligence, Abdullah AS Senusi. Is there another more reliable source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.187.184.95 (talk) 16:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

International diplomacy section

This was said not to a congressional aide, but during an interview with a western news organisation after the execution of Saddam Hussein and when Gaddafi was considered "an important ally" and "a peacemaker in Africa". There was the full interview on YouTube a couple of years ago, but I've been unable to find it now. The interviewer was female, but I cannot recall which organisation she belonged to. Think it was the BBC. It made very interesting viewing. 78.133.124.10 (talk) 14:53, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Is he still alive?

Does anyone know? (217.42.27.249 (talk) 15:48, 1 May 2016 (UTC))

Last anyone has heard he was held in Zinta, so yes. Mezigue (talk) 21:52, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Is there any evidence he's still alive? He hasn't been seen at all since he was captured. (86.183.30.40 (talk) 16:23, 3 May 2016 (UTC))

Why don't you write him a postcard to check? Mezigue (talk)

Surely they would have executed him by now? (217.42.27.182 (talk) 12:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC))

Why don't you write him a postcard to check? Mezigue (talk)

This is not an applicable method to find out anything Mezigue. People can ignore postcards; or they may never be delivered successfully etc... 2A02:8388:1641:3580:BE5F:F4FF:FECD:7CB2 (talk) 21:48, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out to me. Mezigue (talk) 10:26, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Maariv

Both La voz de Galicia and Der Spiegel have short notes quoting Maariv. Other media precise 13 January 2006. Could somebody get a link to the original exposé? --Error (talk) 20:17, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

drunken and drugged

where he blamed the civil war on tribal factions and Islamists acting on their own agendas, drunken and drugged.

Who was "drunken and drugged"? The tribals? The Islamists? Saif? --Error (talk) 20:23, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Status with the International Criminal Court

What is the deal with whether or not Saif al-Islam is sought by the ICC to stand trial? It seems difficult to find a clear ICC 'wanted' list. Has he been indicted? Is Libya in default of its obligations by not handing him over? If a person had information about his whereabouts is this information the ICC would be interested in? If he turned up in another country would that country be required to hand him over to the ICC? It seems inconceivable that he has just slipped out of prison quietly and that's the end of the matter. Beorhtwulf (talk) 13:27, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

The Libyan militia claim the ICC did not request them to hand him over: https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/News/2017/5/9/Libyas-Saif-al-Islam-survives-assassination-attempt-in-Zintan (2A00:23C4:638A:5000:8424:11B8:9085:5ECA (talk) 12:21, 30 May 2017 (UTC))

Thank you for that info and the link to the news report. There is a bit more in the article on this topic now, including a reference to the ICC's statement on the matter. Beorhtwulf (talk) 16:38, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Recent release

It was said that he was recently released due to a general amnesty. Can someone confirm this and then add it to the article? So far only the Figaro reported it and I do not speak french so I can not verify it. 2A02:8388:1641:3580:BE5F:F4FF:FECD:7CB2 (talk) 21:47, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

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