Talk:Saint Miguel Cattle Dog

Requested move 20 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved all three (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 12:55, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

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• Cão Fila de São Miguel → Saint Miguel Cattle Dog
• Cão de Castro Laboreiro → Castro Laboreiro Dog
• Cão da Serra de Aires → Portuguese Sheepdog

– Per WP:USEENGLISH and MOS:LIFE. The only breed standard in English (and the most important one if there are more standards, since it is the FCI world standard) gives the name as Saint Miguel Cattle Dog, and only gives the present title as the original name in Portuguese, parenthetically. The fact that the English name is kind of "Portuglish" is irrelevant; it's a formal proper name. We should only be capitalizing names of standardized breeds as used in English and as provided in the defining standards (the MOS:LIFE exception arrived at by RfC at WP:VPPOL a bit over a year ago; all other groups of animals are lower case). We should not impose over-capitalization on non-English phrases, per MOS:FOREIGN; the proper rendition of this in Portuguese is cão fila de São Miguel. Anyway, it should have redirects from São Miguel Cattle Dog, Sao Miguel Cattle Dog, St. Miguel Cattle Dog, St Miguel Cattle Dog, lower-case versions of same, and redirs from any other names given in the article (I see several in the infobox, though they may be unsourced).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:25, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

• Added Cão de Castro Laboreiro → Castro Laboreiro Dog, too. Essentially the same case, other than there is one breed registry that prefers the Portguese name (in English); however, it is a one-country registry (and not even the country of breed origin), so FCI trumps it as a reliable source. It will also need various redirects for different spellings/capitalizations, and some alternative names (only one of them is sourced, and only with a primary source, but at least that's something).
• PS: "Dog" in both of these should be capitalized, as it is a part of the formal breed name in both cases (this is often not true, and many of our dog breed article names end in lower-case "dog" simply as a natural disambiguation).
• Added Cão da Serra de Aires → Portuguese Sheepdog, since both English-language breed standards agree on that name; will also need some redirects added. Pinging Colin Gerhard and Cavalryman, since I added this after their comments below.

 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:58, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

• Support. None of these names show up on ngram, so there is no common name issue. "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader," per WP:UE. Colin Gerhard (talk) 06:44, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Cavalryman (talk) 08:39, 21 February 2020 (UTC).

Support third nom also. Cavalryman (talk) 09:07, 21 February 2020 (UTC).

• Oppose It's been called this for a very long time. Put in a redirect in English. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:03, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

  That's not pertinent. Of course the original Portuguese names have been used for a longer time than names in English, since they're Portuguese breeds. That doesn't tell us anything about what names should be used on English Wikipedia following our policies and guidelines and with our English-speaking readers in mind. There is no "WP:PREFEROLDNAMES" principle on Wikipedia (the opposite tends to be more true: we prefer names commonly used in current English-language sources).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:49, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

• Support nom's rationale for renaming seems reasonable. I'm not sure I see 7&6's rationale for opposing, to be honest. I would say this article should be titled like this on Portuguese Wikipedia, but not English Wikipedia. Doug Mehus T·C 20:17, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support, this is the English-speaking edition of Wikipedia. William Harristalk 05:45, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support per detailed nomination, Colin Gerhard, Cavalryman, Doug Mehus and William Harris. English-language usage for English Wikipedia. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 02:25, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.