Talk:Samael

Samael "in the fifth heaven" footnote inaccurate

The footnote or "source" for the statement in the article Lede, which is a bare link to the EarlyChristianWritings.com page on Ascension of Isaiah, does not support the statement that is made about Samael at all. In the Ascension of Isaiah, Samael is an evil demon, associated with Beliar and the powers of the firmament. He does not reside in the fifth heaven. This is a big mistake and drastically reduces the value of this Wikipedia article. I don't have time to edit this page at this time, but I ask that someone else please make the necessary changes. Matthew Baldwin (talk) 16:37, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Samael DOES NOT mean 'Poison of God'

Article states that "SAM" is Hebrew for venom/poison, but this is not accurate. "SAM" means drug. Old texts sometimes refer to Poison as "SAM HA-MAVET", meaning the drug of death, but there are at least two special words for poison ("RAAL" and "ROSH") and at least one word for venom ("ERES").

I changed the relevant sentence, but perhaps it is better removed entirely.

--79.179.102.33 20:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I have had to remove the Samael="poison of God" garbage again, I will continue to do so.

Source your entymology please! Kairos (talk) 07:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Some have stated that Samael means “venom of God” or “the blind god”. Despite that belief, the name “Samael” does not have anything to do with venom, poison or blindness. With its roots in Mesopotamia, the name is constructed of two parts--SAMA and EL, to form SAMA.EL. The term "Sama" equates with peace or harmony, while the term "El" notes divinity or the status of being a lord or god. This can be readily observed in the construction of angelic names such as Michael (MICHA.EL), Gabriel (GABRI.EL), etc. Of course, the word "angel" itself contains it (ANG.EL). Therefore SAMA.EL means "Lord of Peace", not Venom Of/To God.--RoninDH

Can we get some actual source on this? Both NationMaster and the JewishEncyclopaedia stand by "poison of god".

Really needs sourcing. From what I have read in books (and I really don't feel like working on this mess of an article) "poison of/to God" is usually rendered as "Sammael", with one book even making certain to note "not Samael". I'm thinking this is a conflation that has to do with how the syllables are written in English. Reading the "Lord of Peace" etymology above makes me think that yet another improper English rendering has been added to the mix. Hell, this entire article should probably go AfD and be re-start from scratch anyway if we can't get some sources up in here. --98.25.28.14 (talk) 19:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

 189.31.217.50 (talk) 15:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

If you/we think 'poison of god' is unreasonable, how unreasonable is to leave it as 'wrath of god'. Did someone change that to relate to 'severity of god'(which also seemed to pop out of no where and stick to this atrocious article)? I'd go by Jewishencyclopedia.com or the catholic. Unless you are a trained linguist with knowledge of ancient Hebrew I would suggest sticking to simple and reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.195.26.113 (talk) 21:40, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

No, we need a source that says "wrath" to say "wrath." The source cited says "poison," so we say "poison" as well. It does not matter what an editors credentials are, only if the sources are acceptable. Davidson's Dictionary of Angels is all but standard, but I'll add some more in time. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:53, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

The continuing problem of wikipedia... Well... just for fun I'm going to look into a transcribe already agreeing "el" as divinity.... but... Samaritan, Osama, Sammon?, Semite?, Samoa?, Same?,...

Shamash is a wiki entry and based upon the older Babylonian God "Sin"... It does say in the book of moses that angels were named after Babylonian Gods. As to what "Sin" means... I'm not sure whether this matters, since Moses may have change the meanings, as also "Everything was good in the garden of Eden"... So it wouldn't have actually symbolised "Any wrong or bad angel"... I agree with RoninDH that the current meaning is false despite what the other sources say and they're most likely going to frame the definitions around their own religions. I can't really be sure what the Jewish one would have been. However... Sin is very close with "Sign" and "Sine"... (Notice the letter "S" is almost a sine wave)... My guess so far is that it's someone who bahaves like God... but the riddle is... they can't be god... and it's a contradiction if they'd be potrayed as evil... They; like God, make their own decisions arguably but control situations to a much lesser degree... but at the same time... would make moral ones (not conflicting with the 10 commandments as an example)... So this sort of represents a secularist of some sort whom can make errors but arguably avoids them (So, enactor of god?). This is based upon the usage of "Samaritan and Same (which does also bear similarity with "related to" to bear in mind). I've always found that Samael bares a very strong relation with old testiment Satan too. (fits with adversary aswell) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.220.157.192 (talk) 00:40, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Can you please clarify what you mean by "the book of moses"?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Leighmeinhart (talk • contribs)

@Leighmeinhart: Questions about posts from over a year ago are not likely to get any responses. Also, please sign your posts with four tildes (~~~~). Ian.thomson (talk) 00:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Samael in the Christian Bible

Has Samael ever been mentioned in any translation/version of the Christian Bible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.181.168.245 (talk) 09:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No. Samael has not appeared in the OT (Unless you considered him Satan as Kabbalah does) nor the Nt. Xuchilbara (talk) 21:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No. Samael is not mentioned in the Christian Bible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sabbaoth (talk • contribs) 15:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually Samael/Lucifer is traditionally thought to be referenced in a poem in the old testament by a good number of christians. Kairos (talk) 07:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Although the Isaiah passage that refers to Lucifer is "Helel Ben Shahar" [Helel son of Shahar], a Canaanite deity, and metaphor for a Babylonian king. Xuchilbara (talk) 03:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

ANSI ARtist confusion.

Removed from the article as unverifiable (spectacularly fails the Google test — one hit for "sammael ansi artist", which no longer exists):

Sammael is the handle of an ANSI artist who was active in the scene from 1994 to 1999. He was a member of many high profile groups including Samsara, FiRE, CiA, Rile, and Anemia.

Uncle G 16:39, 2005 Jan 7 (UTC)

Many if not most ANSI artists are impossible to google as the web wasn't what it is today when the ANSI scene was alive. This link this linkshows much of his work:

Samael has veered very very very far from what would usually be labeled black metal. Progressive metal is a more accepted label, although the music is naturally unclassifiable.

In any case, an artist with the same name would have his own page(which would be called "Samael(ARtist)" or "Samael(singer)" etc...), at most he'd have link to that page here.

Samael doesn't owe Evil 'nobody or nothin'. 'Not the Truth, nor any Mercy.' Meaner and badder, and by far, more strong-Willed, than Lucifer. More than the Devil, himself. The benchmark of Jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.103.165.133 (talk) 07:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Lucifer and Satan

I edited out some of the parts concerning Lucifer and a explanation of why Lucifer is not Samael, although informative, it seemed to be written in a way that a great deal about Lucifer and not Samael, who this article is about, so I cut some of it.Xuchilbara 00:40, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Xuchilbara I think this article could be more clearly written, as things are very unclear. That's the main problem I see. (Hijou)

Well in the TV show Lucifer, they mention that his given name from God was Sameal, and he hates that name… I know it's a tv show but they are very spot on with biblical references about everything and everyone else so I find it hard to believe they'd have that wrong 2600:1700:83B1:1E70:3D1C:98E2:81BE:EE0C (talk) 16:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

A number of religious traditions consider Lucifer, Satan, and Samael to be one and the same. Kairos (talk) 07:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Samael's primary mythology is Jewish. Not Christian. The name "Samael" is rarely used or said in a Christian context. You can only consider them the "same" from this context, which again, is rare. Xuchilbara (talk) 03:40, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

...

Correction:

Mastema... is 'the Angel of Temptation.' And quite a good and homosexual Angel. He brings the Evil to their own desired destruction, plus those who tempt others, to their Doom. Original 'Son of Sam,' that one. Only Good Angels do that.

The Archenemy of Lucifer, factually, is Samael. Samael is Seraphim, Himself. More slippy than the Devil. Seraphim. That Angel of yours, that most Vicious Angel.

Samael doesn't even mind being called, 'a bastard.' Seraphim, yours. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.103.165.133 (talk) 08:45, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Samael in other traditions

"Samael in Kabbalah is the Qliphoth corresponding to the sephirah Hod. It means "the poison of God", the liar and the jugglers, and the demons associated with it are described as dull-yellow, demon-headed dog-like monsters.[citation needed]

The Qliphoth is the unbalanced aspect of a particular sephirah. Hod is the sephirah concerned with rationalisation, intellectualism and the occult, that gives form to ideas, as opposed to Netzach, that is raw energy, the ability of passion to transcend form. Hod must be balanced with Qliphoth to prevent dullness that follows from complete rationalization of the world, such as that of the sceptic who believes he knows everything and dismisses many potentially joyous experiences out of hand. For this reason, Hod becomes Samael, the Liar, the Juggler, who through clever words and rationalisations denies the existence of anything higher or greater.[citations needed]"

I've been told that Samael is actually attributed to the sephira, Geburah. According to Gustav Davidson in "A Dictionary of Angels" on page 255. "In Waite, The Holy Kabbalah, p.255, Samael is characterized as the "severity of God" and is listed as 5th of the archangles of the world of Briah. Here he corresponds to the sefira Geburah." Samael and is also attributed to Mars, Geburah's planet. EGGO 05:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Samael does preside over Gevurah or Din as Archangel, and is attributed to Mars in this guise. Since the Prince of the Left-Hand Emanation had an ominous and dangerous aspect, however, the name was often written differently as Camael of Kamael or Khamael. Note that the Hebrew letter Kaph resembles a Samekh that has not been closed at the right. Whether this is a deliberate avoidance of writing the title in full or merely the result of bad transcription, I do not know. That said, yes, the cohorts of the Kelippot answering to the eighth emanation, Hod, are ascribed as "Samael" as well, though I suspect this was a matter of Mathers or Kircher or whoever either getting muddled or glossing over the true attribution as a blind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.213.144.148 (talk) 02:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

LOOK STUPID.... primitive fucktard

Azrael = Mars

Hermes = Mercury

Messenger is far more Fanatical.

Fictional Samaels

"In the first game in the Silent Hill series, Dahlia Gillespie, an antagonist, refers to a symbol as being the "Mark of Samael", which led many players to believe that the entity, refered to in the third game as "The God", was actually Samael. This was disproved when, later in the series, it is revealed that the mark is actually the "Seal of Metatron", as well as the fact that the incarnation of "The God" in the first game resembles Baphomet, not Samael."

A citation is needed here because Baphomet and Samael are a reference to the samething. I am not basing this off a video game but the occult itself. Although, I think the game makes this all pretty clear. Either some of you are over complicating and estimating a pretty simple storyline or are deliberately trying to misguide people like occultist tend to try and do. Your argument between Baphomet and Samael is an oxymoron along with several other peoples comments here. Here is just one reference. [1] Although, this site is incorrect about the traceable dated use of the inverted pentacle in rituals involving a symbolic sacrificial goat. It still serves its purpose here.--Theseus23 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

This is was this article has to say about the fiction Samael, yet the account of Samael in the Silent Hill Mosters article is different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Silent_Hill_monsters

"Samael - The Incubus harbored within Alessa Gillespie that acts as the destructive hand of God, killed by Harry in Silent Hill 1. It is speculated whether or not Samael exists, or is just a lie told to Harry by Dahlia so she could trick him into helping her. Why she believed telling him this would get him to help her is anyone's guess, since Harry does not appear to be heavily versed in religion and demonology. In any case, it appears Dahlia was in fact telling the truth, the mark that appears throughout Silent Hill is that of Samael's, NOT the mark of Metatron. The Mark of Samael is a triangle within a twin circle that is filled with symbols - the mark we see in the games - whilst Metatron is a series of interconnected circles and lines that bear no resemblance to the mark we actually see."

Which one of these is correct?

I don't know, but neither of them deserve that much space in the article. Snip:

...which led many players to believe that the entity, referred to in the third game as "The God", was actually Samael. This was disproved when, later in the series, it is revealed that the mark is actually the "Seal of Metatron", as well as the fact that the incarnation of "The God" in the first game resembles Baphomet, not Samael. However, in Silent Hill 3 there is mention that those who despised the Cult's deity identified it with a demon (Samael)so Samael could be considered an outside name given to the deity.

I hope this offends no one, but that's a full paragraph explaining the plot of a video game. --Mgreenbe 00:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Again, Mgreenbe your stating that oxymoron between Samael and Baphomet.--Theseus23 (talk) 18:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

yep. And Metatron is said carries on a ceaseless battle with Samael. (and Alessa is using the seal of Metatron to kill "the god". So speculation on rather the incubus inside her is Samael remains.) 67.78.156.66 16:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

First off, the opposers of the Order in Silent Hill were said to give demonic names to the God. Memo in SH3:

"There is no religion that has

remained unchanged from the

moment it was founded.

This one is no exception.

When this religion fell into the

hands of immigrants, it was deeply

influenced by their own original

Christian beliefs.

For example, the traditional

representatives of these primal

gods may be given the names and

descriptions of Christian angels.

Thus shared characteristics begin

to appear.

(There is also one rare example

of the chief deity, "Creator of

Paradise" or "Lord of Serpents

and Reeds", being dubbed with

a demon's name. Of course, this

was not done by believers, but

by their opponents.)"

Lastly, we have that Dahlia didn't even know that the seal of Metatron was beig used by Alessa at all.

Then as far as Venom of God is concerned, could you cite the source were Samael's name does not translate to 'venom of God'? Because you know, Samael, for being one of the serpents in the Garden of Eden, has a relation to venom. [2] "Lord of Peace" is just simply too farfetched, not too mention Samael is the angel partly to blame for the fall of mankind. he also charcged with impregnanting Eve with Cain in his serpent form.[3] And as you know Silent Hill is full of Kabbalah, so I would think they don't have the idea that he's "nice".

Xuchilbara 18:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Where do some of you get some of this stuff??? Although, at first it might be kind of difficult to understand I think the base of the plot isn't that difficult to grasp. Too much over thinking on such a simple message and formula.

Ian Samael is a main character in the webcomic Errant Story. --Kestenvarn

"*In the game series Silent Hill, Samael is the demonic entity worshipped by the cult hidden in the town of Silent Hill, whose soul was ritually bound into the bodies of two sisters. His power is believed to be behind much of the series' supernatural happenings.

Those parts are entirely false. In fact I have no idea who the "two sisters" are or where that story came from, it isn't in game. Nor does the cult worship Samael, because their God is a female Solar diety. Xuchilbara 16:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

He's also the villian in Carl Maria von Weber's opera Der Freischütz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.88.144.228 (talk) 22:27, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Silent Hill

I decided to make a entire talk tribute page to the weird Silent Hill fan based speculations regarding Samael that seem to just eternally keep popping up here. If anybody wants to contest that on why its being removed and how factually inaccurate or accurate some of info, please do tell.

"

• Samael is the Demon God Ruler of Silent Hill In the First and Third Silent Hill Video Games For The Playstation 1 and Playstation 2. The Cult Group known as The Order worships him and they summoned him to the town. Samael Is Defeated by Harry Mason (the main character of the first Silent Hill) in the Good and Good+ ending of the Game.He Returns in the Third Game, Silent Hill 3 but is Defeated again for a final time by Harry Mason's Daughter Heather Morris (Cheryl Mason). Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown. He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place."

This was taken out because:

• 1. Samael is never mentioned in Silent Hill series, he's only mentioned in 1 through the "Mark of Samael".[4] The games and extra works do not state Samael's overall importance and the fact remains that he is only mentioned in Sh1 and does not appear anywhere else, not even in other documents.
• 2. See above document from the game of Silent Hill 3, in which God was not given demon names except by opposers.[5] Furthermore the God of the Order is a female Solar deity, not male as Samael is, obviously. And the SH creators stated that the supposed "Mark of Samael" has little or no profound signafigance and falls under the catagory of word play by Dahlia.[6] Any Silent Hill fan would know that its hard to trust everything Dahlia says as she is a known manipulater through words and attempts to decieve Harry multiple times.
• 3 The God Harry defeats in one is based of the image of God that Dahlia had, or more accurately the image of Baphomet. Its labeled as a incubus and dream demon by more than one official source. Samael is not a part of this incubi-succbea/night/dream class of demons, although his wife Lilith certinly is.
• 4. In the third game, the God that Heather defeats is made after the image of God that Claudia had. This is image is of Alessa and all the monster's parts are female, how could she be even remotely considered to be Samael?[7]
• 5. Samael and other Jewish figures have nothing to do with Silent Hill 2. They are not even mentioned. "Samael is still recovering in Silent Hill 2, and Is therefore not shown." That is speculation.
• 6."He No longer is in power over the Demonic town when Silent Hill 4 Takes Place." More speculation.

Xuchilbara 19:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The incorrect assertion that Samael is the cultist God of Silent Hill has been removed (probably again). The name is only ever used in reference to the "Mark of Samael", and Silent Hill 3 makes clear that this name is an intentional misnomer. I cited a source from the Silent Hill 3 file transcript, though I may not have the formatting correct--I'm new at this.

It is a difficult source to verify by text because there is no text in the game stating outright that the Seal of Metatron/Virun VII Crest is the same object as the so-called "Mark of Samael". You learn this by seeing the two and making a visual comparison, and I can't think of any way to translate that into a workable method on Wikipedia. I just wanted to make this clarification so that the change is not reverted to its original, inaccurate state. There is no entity within Silent Hill named Samael. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iungwu (talk • contribs) 22:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

--Ryan (talk) 22:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Anthrosophism

I give up. What the hell is 'Anthrosophism'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.128.44 (talk) 00:39, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It's just a typo. Cyb3r (talk) 01:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Redirect from Göap

Could someone write some text telling what "Göap" is and why it redirects here? 71.90.130.7 (talk) 03:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The previous page said "Göap is most often known as Samael, appearing as Göap only in the Ars Goetia." However, it seems it probably refers to Gaap, as that page specifically mentions Ars Goetia." I think it may be a typo, actually. So I changed the redirect to go there instead. Dan0 00 (talk) 14:36, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Samael's wikipage suffering vandalism.

Hello friends.

I need help in order to revert some unsourced vandalisms that are happening in the page.

Archangel Of FireArchangel of Fire (talk) 14:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

article contradictions

I though AZRAEL is the angel of death the article for Azrael claims he is the Islamic and Judaeochristian angel of death

The article is incorrect, it has mistakenly taken the traits described for Samael and Azazel and jumbled them together. Thefifthlord (talk) 20:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-nonsense

There's a lot of poorly-worded gibberish near the end of the article that seems to have been written by someone to whom English is a second language. While the author seems to have a lot of detail concerning the topic, the way it's written is messy and doesn't make a lot of sense.76.186.52.32 (talk) 19:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Non-Technicality of Early Languages

Although it is true that Samael does not mean "Poison of God" and that its origin is not of a negative derivation, we need to remember that the early languages were not exact, and transcriptions often did not change names thought they did change meanings to new culture's beliefs and words. Therefore, there also exists evidence that says the meaning of Samael is "The Desolate One". This not withstanding, that was always one of the main difficulties in translating these ancient languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Uwriel Immortallo (talk • contribs) 13:15, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

The translation of ancient languages, is of course especially difficult for those who do not know the language in question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.176.125 (talk) 19:35, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Samael meaning "blind god"?

The name Samael is mentioned once in the Apocryphon of John, with no elaboration. What is the source of the claim that its meaning in this context is "blind god"? What is the source of the claim that "the theme of blindness" runs "throughout gnostic works"? Where is his appearance described as "a lion-faced serpent" or "a blind soldier"? 24.179.143.119 (talk) 04:03, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

New stuff goes at the bottom. I've added a reference for the lion-faced serpent (it's contextual, but it's there). I remember seeing something that could be used as a source for the other two commments somewhere, but it's quarter past midnight where I am, and I may get to go out with my girlfriend tomorrow, so it'll have to wait (sorry). Ian.thomson (talk) 04:18, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for the quick response (and for moving this to the bottom; I've never edited much, so I don't really know protocol). I found the lion-faced serpent description as you linked it, but it's directly in reference to the name Yaltabaoth -- which, in the context of this Apocryphon at least, is supposed to be the same being as Samael, but are the three names entirely interchangeable, or do they name different forms/faces/manifestations of this being? Even if we assume the names are interchangeable, I think it should be noted in the article that the lion-faced serpent description is given to this being under the name Yaltabaoth. Does that seem reasonable? Also, I note that the article on Demiurge says: “Samael” literally means “Blind God” or “God of the Blind” in Aramaic (Syriac sæmʕa-ʔel). If that's true, why does this article on Samael specify the name only means that "in this context" (of the Apocryphon of John)? Are there other interpretations?24.179.143.119 (talk) 21:14, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

IIRC, different gnostic groups came up with different meanings. The Apocryphon of John does go with Yaldabaoth/Saklas/Samael being different names for the same being, so I dunno if we even need to mention that it's directed at Yaldabaoth (it'd be kinda like taking some description of El Shaddai in the Hebrew Bible being directed at El Elyon in some other text, and pointing out it was originally towards El Shaddai, different title, same being). Also, while (or rather because) I didn't get to see my girlfriend today, I'm not going to doing more work today, sorry, I'm going to be irresponsible and watch a movie to distract me. ... I've also got church, and I've gotta get to the DMV... It may be a bit, but I will try to dig up those sources. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:25, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

It may mean "God of the Blind" in Aramaic but in Hebrew it means "Poison of a God". 99.56.174.63 (talk) 10:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Samuel is Latin. Could this be Samael a patron of Rome?

Have you noticed the simularities of the name Samael to Samuel? Since Samuel is not the real pronunciation of the Hebrew prophet it is logical to conclude that it also has another meaning other then "Shemuwel" (real spelling) which means "Heard by God". Yes Samuel has the same meaning as Samael which means "Poison of a God". No wonder Sammy Davis Jr felt compelled to join the Church of Satan but before he died denounced them for Jesus (Yeshuwa). Samael is said to be an archangel that is often viewed as being Satan. Something to think about. Better to choose the spelling Shemuwel or Shemuel when naming a son. Also I noticed in the Samuel article that "Samuel" is Latin. Were the Latinese deliberatly trying to honor and worship Samael by changing Shemuwel to Samuel? It would appear so because the Samael article reveals that Samael was a patron of the Roman empire. Interesting. I wonder how many other Biblical names have been this cleverly subverted? 99.56.174.63 (talk) 07:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Wow, your information is off. Sammy Davis Jr. (a Jew, who didn't convert back to Christianity) did not join the (atheistic) Church of Satan, the title of Reverend is something they hand out to people they revere for whatever reason. They could hand it out to Jesus if they wanted. Also, the Hebrew for Samael (סמאל) and Samuel (שְׁמוּאֵל) are different, there is a ו present in Samuel. In Latin, they're still different (U and A are not the same letter). I've only seen English speakers get the two mixed up, for whatever reason. Also, you've got it backwards, some Jews decided that Samael was the patron of Rome, Rome didn't give a rat's patoot about Samael, and they never worshipped Samuel (after becoming Christians, they liked him, but not anymore any Christians of any other race).

Latinese? WTF? Dude, seriously, you really don't know what you're talking about. The Romans spoke Latin (and before them, the Latins), not the "Latinese." Your views of the Romans almost border on superstitious racism. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:34, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't speaking of the Hebrew spellings of Samael verses Samuel but the way the Hebrew name Shemuwel was "transliterated" by the Latin speaking people of Rome to Samuel which is almost the same as Samael. Obviously because the Jews did say that Samael was the patron of Rome so they must have took it to heart and decided to venerate him instead of choosing a true translieration of Shemuwel. I was being funny when I said Latinese. It is still proper English though. I don't have to speak the Queen's English. As far as Sammy Davis Jr was concerned he said before he died that the only reason he joined the church of Satan was "for the chicks". 99.56.174.63 (talk) 13:35, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Taken from Yahoo Answers: Myth 27 ASL was a close friend of Sammy Davis, Jr. and inducted him into the Church of Satan. Sammy Davis, Jr. was invited to accept an honorary membership in the Church of Satan by Michael Aquino. After Davis sent Aquino his acceptance on March 17, 1973, he was presented with the honorary membership on April 13, 1973 by Aquino and Karla LaVey alone. ASL did not meet Davis until August 1973. Davis would later renounce Satanism, claiming later he was "only into it for the chicks" and re-embraced Judaism. At a nationaly televised event honoring him a few weeks before he died, Davis said "First of all, I want to thank Jesus for letting me be here tonight", completely shattering any doubt he had any lingering affinty to Satanism. Davis had been an activist for civil rights, and battled racism, in contrast to the racists and Neo-nazis that often embrace Satanism. [SOURCES: Davis letter to Aquino 3/17/73; Church of Satan Priesthood Bulletin 4/30/73; Aquino, COS, Chapter 23; Sammy Davis, Hollywood in a Suitcase (pre-publication text, printed in Daily News, New York, 9/11/80), Karla LaVey.]

                    Source(s):          http://usminc.org/satanism.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.56.174.63 (talk) 13:45, 28 October 2010 (UTC) 

There is no evidence of the Romans venerating Samael, you're just making that up to justify paranoid and racist fantasies. In various other instances, the Hebrew Sh became the Latin S, such as did with the names Jesus, Moses, Hosea, Isaac, Solomon... Clearly, it was just a more familiar sound to the Roman tongue. Latin also lacked a W, that was brought into the alphabet by later languages, so they could not have transliterated it as Shemuwel. You are once again showing you don't know anything about the Latin language or the Romans. Only some Jews said that Samael was the patron of Rome. Latinese isn't proper English.

Yahoo Answers is user generated content with no editorial oversight, and no fact checkers. There are also Neo-Nazis and racists that embrace Christianity, and Satanists that reject neo-Nazism, so the contrast at the end doesn't really demonstrate anything. The source given is a personal website meant to push a POV, not a reliable source. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:28, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Samael in the White Wolf rpg Vampire the Masquerade.

In the old World of Darkness setting for White_Wolf's Vampire:_the_Masquerade Samael is named as the progenitor of the Salubri clan of vampires. 67.149.196.9 (talk) 17:48, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

That... Doesn't exactly affect culture. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:52, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Which... Would be relevent if I were suggesting the creation of a new article page. 67.149.196.9 (talk) 09:51, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Still fancruft, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:40, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Add it to the article or don't. I just wanted to point it out as a pop culture reference. This one seems more relevant than most of the other references in the culture section, seeing as it's a take on the actual mythological figure Samael and not just borrowing the name. You should note that I only mentioned it on the discussion page instead of adding to the long list of schlock that is already sighted in the article. 67.149.196.9 (talk) 01:42, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

"Samael personified" = Hades?

The picture in the main section with the caption "Samael personified ." (sic) links to Hades.jpg. Why? 68.50.244.172 (talk) 14:25, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Fixed. Billtanin (talk) 23:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

He is an accuser and destroyer, the angel of death in the Kabbalah.. his depiction as a skeleton made some sense in my opinion. The tree of life depiction makes little sense though he is mostly described in the Kabbalah.. death is not a sphere in the tree of life. I've updated the image.Thefifthlord (talk) 18:50, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Your opinion is not listed at "Identifying reliable sources". Ian.thomson (talk) 23:04, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

It's not an opinion it's a fact to anyone who's studied even the bare minimum of Kabbalah. Would you rather have an incorrect reference than accept my knowledge without a direct reference once? Seriously it's this kind of thinking that leads to the dis-accuracy of many articles, I mean seriously Azrael should be merged with Azazel, it's nothing more than a misnomer and yet it's become a massive source of misinformation that's jumbled traits of this article with those of Azazel with only one real citation that even names "Azrael" in it's favour! The rest name Samael or Azazel, but you try to convince the editors of that. When an expert arrives to clean up an article don't complain, help him get the job done, find those references(I've already added plenty), I assure you they exist. Thefifthlord (talk) 13:55, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Read "Identifiying reliable sources". Read "No original research". You don't seem to understand either concept. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Angel of Death

I'm confused, Samael in this article is the Angel of Death, on the Azrael article he is the Angel of Death. Are they both the Angel of Death or is this a matter of faith e.g. Jews believe Samael is the Angel of Death and Christians belive it is Azrael? Also the same picture is used on both pages claiming to be a represenation of either Angel depending on which article you're reading. 212.250.138.33 (talk) 04:31, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam collectively have thousands of years of mythology outside their sacred texts. Interpretation of their sacred texts varies, so why wouldn't something passed on by word of mouth? Different legends have different angels of death.

I have removed the pics, because they didn't belong in either article, since the artist didn't call it Samael or Azrael. Ian.thomson (talk) 13:47, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Samael rides the serpent

according to maimonides guide for the perplexed (part 2, chapter 30): ..the Serpent was a riding beast the size of a camel and that its rider was that who seduced Eve and that the rider was Samael.

http://press.tau.ac.il/perplexed/chapters/chap_2_30.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.19.120.132 (talk) 19:39, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Samael in Anthroposophy

I changed 3600 years of the period of ruling by archangels into the (more or less) 360 that Steiner and other anthroposophists reference, based upon the system by Johannes Trithemius.

I also deleted the part about some archangels being evil. I think that is not nuanced enough and not helpful for someone quickly looking up what Samael may mean within Anthroposophy. As I understand it from all Anthroposophic sources: some rough times can be ruled over (and influenced by) archangels, surely. But these times are necessary for the evolution of the human being and its relationship to god (in the broad sense of the word). Therefore it isn't 'evil'. It is either timely or not. If the materialsm (that was spoken about in the part that I deleted) continues on past its 'proper'time, it isn't the right thing for that new time and therefore you may see it as 'evil'. But you can also just see it as untimely and unhelpful for humanity at that moment, but perfectly 'good' in its own time and place.

Lastly, I didn't delete it, but I think it is unhelpful in an article about Samaël to speak of archangels within Anthroposophy in general - i.e. in the seasons. Samaël is not one of the archangels whose influence has been discussed (within Anthroposophy) as ruling over a season. This information should perhaps be put on a page that speaks of archangels in general. AnneloesF (talk) 10:22, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

"They are all imagined to have a special assignment", etc.

What is being described is very similar to the word Aeon. Nuttyskin (talk) 03:26, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

rabbinical slander

This entry is not accurate. Bias. Do rabbis not fear slandering an Angel of the Lord God in good standing? Nothing to cite. Nothing needed for this entry. This article is false. Pure fantasy. Rabbis playing Dungeons & Dragons. They know better than to publish this nonsense. Refer to historical entries regarding how very much this article has changed recently, as if spinning some story. Has there been some mysterious breakthrough in academic coverage of Samael? No. Has some magical scroll, previously hidden, been found in some bat cave in Israel? No. This appears to be Dungeons & Dragons by dark rabbis, pure and simple.

Further, to be more serious, Son One is Samael (Elohim name). He is not the Fifth. He is Seraphim himself.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.103.165.133 (talk) 05:08, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not use original research, which is a polite way of saying that we don't care about what you've decided to make up about Samael, because unlike the article, what you said cited no professionally published, mainstream academic sources. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:45, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is accuser (devil)

-> is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is an accuser (satan) ?? Since it's well affirmed on the Satan page that satan means accuser and devil means slanderer in old testiment terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.220.157.192 (talk) 23:36, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

idk if you guys have ever been around one but a corrupter has no capacity to create u give this creature to much credit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.33.184.30 (talk) 08:48, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Picture

Greetings I am concered about the picture in this topic, because provides a more positive view on the "angel of death" and seems to handle the "angel of physical" (he is outching the body of human), while Samael is more going to be like a "venom", corrupting and more dispicted as a dark and evil beeing. In addition, the article "Azarel", got the same picture but Azrail is considered to be another angel than samael (and more posetive). Samael and Azrael are both titled "angel of death" but seem to have different meanings and I guess this picture confuses the meaning of this figures (especialy because of the more posetive intention of this picture here) — Preceding unsigned comment added by VenusFeuerFalle (talk • contribs) 20:11, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Picture again...

The picture by Evelyn De Morgan intended to show the "bright side" of death. However Samael is commonly used as the personification of "suffering adn death". Behind the figure Samael lies the opposite of the depiction Evelyn De Morgan intended by drwaing her image. Yes I know, Samael can be seen as "good" in popular culture and is "necesessary aspect in Kaabalistic thought", however the common-ground about "Samael" is that he is "evil". For example there are different appeariances of Samael in history, but all have in common to depict Samael as something that harms people (Gnosticism yaldabaoth, henochian writings assisting the fallen angels, later midrashim identifieing him with Iblis and so on). Furthermore, in Jewish thought, death is often sin as "bad", something you got because you sinned or you die and will not be resurrected because you were not righteous. The idea of the "death" being pleasant is faraway from the depiction of Samael as angel of death (for example for the depcition of "angel of Death" as Azrail, would fit).--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 21:45, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry I missed the prior discussion or I'd've agreed with removing on the grounds that the picture doesn't explicitly identify the figure in it as Samael, just as some "angel of death," and so is almost as inappropriate here as in Yama (and only by merit of the fact that Yama isn't typically called an angel). Ian.thomson (talk) 22:23, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Would you think, that the picture from the Turkish-Wiki fit there? https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samael_(Melek) It resembles the picture we already had, but I like how "Samael" sits on the earth, also matching the Gnostic idea of Samael, even if it is coincedence. However I am not sure about, this is really Samael.

I can tell you what Samiel really looks like.

He appeared to me in a dream. This is not a joke, I'm dead serious-7 years ago, I had a dream that there was a tall man wearing a dray gray robe and hood that covered him from head to foot. This is what I wrote on June 19, 2011 at 11:48:

"I dreamt that there was a tall man dressed in a long dark robe. His entire body was covered by the robe including his hands and feet, and his face was hidden under a hood. He called himself Samiel, and he claimed to be God. I believed him. And I began to worship him and bow down to him. Then I slipped and accidentally called him Jesus. "What did you say?" he asked sternly. "That's not my name. My name is Samiel. You called me by the wrong name. I think that deserves punishment. But I need your permission before I can punish you." I thought, what? You need MY permission to punish me?? What kind of God would need MY permission? You're not god!

"No!" I said. In a fit of rage, he began to slowly raise his arms, trembling with anger, and the sleeves of his robe fell to his wrists revealing terribly deformed, withered, yellowish hands with 7 inch long razor sharp claws protruding from the fingertips. If you have ever seen Nightmare on Elm Street, that's what his hands looked like, his claws were just as sharp and long as Freddy Krueger's, but they weren't made of metal. And he reached for my neck and clenched my throat with his claws and began strangling me. It was incredible that his fingernails didn't penetrate my skin, because they were razor sharp and he was putting tremendous pressure on them. He was apparently frustrated by this and began to squeeze my throat harder and harder, until it began to cut off my air supply. I couldn't breathe anymore and I felt like I was going to pass out. And then I awoke, out of breath, and I could feel the pressure points where each of his ten fingers had been pressing into my skin."

I only found out last Saturday that Samiel is a real demon when I stumbled upon this Wikipedia article. I didn't have any clue that this entity was a real thing, I didn't know anything about demonology or anything like that when I had the dream. I had never heard of Samiel before. But he was in my dream exactly the way he is described here.

Samiel is real.

Anyway, he is tall, wearing a long dark robe. I can't tell you what his face looks like, because it was covered by the hood. But his hands are terribly deformed and withered, with long, razor sharp claws. If you can find a picture like that, it would be the most accurate. But the picture you suggested might be somewhat closer, even though I don't think he's quite a skeleton.

well, thank you for your expierience. your descitptions of Samiel reminds me of "Shadow person", however we can not use personal experiences on Wikipedia, since we can not "proove" any spiritual being scientifically. For religious researches, we can just provide, that people earlier identified with a certain figure. For example, if we talk about angels, we do not write, that an angel is, but that humans perieved as angels over history. My question was about weather or not, if related image is thought as "Samael" by the artist. Maybe make an image how you percieved Samiel and maybe in 100 years, your work is presented in an encyclopedia as "depictions of Samiel in the 21th century".--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 14:56, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Interesting your description of "uncle Sami". I don't know if you are a fraud or not, but I think this testimony talks about him wearing a hood (maybe this testimony as well). But let me clarify something for you, because Christian paganism has distort reality too much. Samael is not a demon, and he is not an "enemy of God" nor a "rebellious" angel. He WORKS for God, although he has to do the dirty job that nobody likes. He is in charge of tempting you to make sins (which gives him more power aka evil inclination or 'yetzer harah'), later he accuses you in front of the cort of heaven to prosecute you (aka Satan) and finally he is in charge of taking out your soul and punishing you (aka "Malach haMabeth" - Angel of Death). Why did God create such a "nice guy" to bother you? It's part of the game we call 'free will'. Tomorrow night he takes vacations for one day so God can purify His people from their sins. Gmar Chatima Tovah😊--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 20:30, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, I actually was left questioning after my dream whether Samiel was good or evil... Because, as I will explain shortly, the dream didn't end there, but continued once I fell back to sleep. Another angel appeared to me at the end, and told me that the dream was all an act, to show me something I needed to know. So I thought, wait a moment, since Samiel appeared to me as part of this act, even though he played an evil role, he must have been cooperating with God to do so... so is he good or bad? I still don't know. It sounds like he's somewhat of a Machiavellian character. Very mysterious.

If you want to read the rest of my dream, you can. I would post it here but it's too long, so I'll put it on my website

Samiel is similar to a shadow person, but, as I said, I was asleep at the time, and the remarkable thing about it is his name. That he called himself Samiel, a name I had never heard before.

Anyway, making my own depiction is not a bad idea. I was actually thinking about making a sketch of what he looked like in my dream. If I finish that, can I post that here for the illustration? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.201.54 (talk) 06:44, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

this seriously cites a video game?

seriously? as an actual source? --97.122.110.250 (talk) 02:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

DO you mean "Darksiders"? As far as I know it is not within the text, it does not actually cites something.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 11:52, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Samael as one of the seven archangels and the Assumption of Moses

1) Where is the source for the claim that Samael is one of the seven archangels? He isn't one of them in Catholic, Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic or Muslim tradition. Nor does he appear in the list of seven angels of the Book of Enoch. The article says that Saint Gregory included him in a supposed list of seven archangels, but it doesn't provide any backup for this.

2) The text excerpt under the "Other traditions" definitely doesn't come from the Assumption of Moses, but from the Revelation of Moses. Compare the Assumption: http://wesley.nnu.edu/index.php?id=2124 with the Revelation: https://rejectedscriptures.weebly.com/the-revelation-of-moses.html They're totally different texts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.34.126.125 (talk) 11:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I will check it out.--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:06, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Now I am confused: ​The Revelation of Moses is the same as The life of Adam and Eve from the first Century? Further I could not find "Samael" in any of both. Could yuo explain it further? (I want to add, I think the entire setion looks suspicious)--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:26, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Samael in Gregorien tradition?

Here is a source about Samael, which is not yet within the article. It seems to include Bogomilite traces. However, I currently do not have the time and mind to go into detail about this matter and found it by coincedent. Since this article is frequently edited, maybe other Users are itnerested in imporving the article with the source: "Eter Intskirveli Shota Rustaveli Institute of Georgian Literature TRANSFORMATION OF COSMOGONIC NARRATIVE IN SVANETIAN MYTH-RITUAL SYSTEM".--VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 20:01, 5 June 2021 (UTC)