Talk:Samar

Requested move (January 2014)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. See also Talk:Leyte (island)#Requested move. DrKiernan (talk) 16:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

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• Samar island → Samar
• Samar → Samar (province)

– The island is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the term "Samar". The province is normally referred to as Samar Province or even Western Samar province and is only one of three local government units in the island.--RioHondo (talk) 07:45, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

• Support. Looking at the news articles related to Typhoon Haiyan, the term "Samar" by itself generally refers to the island, not the province. --seav (talk) 11:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
• Alternative: "Samar" as disambiguation page. I don't think that any Samar is as well-known as to be useful for our readership that we consider it a clear primary topic and thus channel said readers in its direction. I think that in this case our readers would be better served by having "Samar" as the disambiguation page, and all specific content just one click away. — Such an arrangement would have the added advantage of facilitating the work of editors and general maintenance (checking Special:WhatLinksHere/Samar would suffice to know which wikilinks need correction), thus further aiding in ensuring that our readership gets a better content across Wikipedia, and not just in this specific article. --Ev (talk) 00:09, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Re I have added the Samar (disambiguation) page in the article. The kibbutz in Israel is not as notable as the island, and neither are those Indian films. The Battle off Samar, Samar Sea, and the three provinces pertain to locations in or near the island, the clear primary topic.--RioHondo (talk) 04:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
• Comment in any case, the current name, result of a November 2013 move, is wrong. It should either be Samar Island as it was in October 2013, or Samar (island) as it was in July 2010, if it were to keep "island", and not the current title of "Samar island" -- 76.65.128.112 (talk) 05:06, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
• Semi support Samar province should be renamed, but instead the disambiguation page should be moved to "Samar". This article should be called either "Samar Island" or "Samar (island)" -- 76.65.128.112 (talk) 05:06, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
• Question: What happens to some categories that has the "Samar" name, like Category:People from Samar, on it? Would they stay there, be moved, or would their focus be changed (instead of pertaining to the province, it'll be about the island)? –HTD 09:58, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Re Category:People from Samar stays as it is a subcat of Category:People by island in the Philippines. So does Category:Flora of Samar under Category:Flora of the Visayas. (Basically, geographical categories in which the "Samar" name have already been used clearly in reference to the island and not the province.) What would change would only be the political/governmental categories: Category:Samar itself, Category:Populated places in Samar and subcats. --RioHondo (talk) 14:41, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
    • But the category is also a subcat of Category:People by province in the Philippines, and was originally made under that intention. Would Category:People from Eastern Samar be a subcat of Category:People from Samar, for example? Or are we going to create a new category for a provincial classification (like Category:People from Samar (province)), then Category:People from Samar is permanently diffused into the three provinces (although Category:People from Northern Samar still doesn't exist) that have jurisdiction on the island? And how about notable people born on places such as Homonhon, for example? –HTD 10:27, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
      • Ideally, these two categories should be separate, and there are no sharing of categories. Unfortunately we dont have enough articles to be that specific so Category:People from Mindoro has its two provinces under it in the time being. Eventually, a separate Category:People from Lubang and Category:People from Ilin Island would be made once we get notable persons from those other islands in the Mindoro group. Former Vice-President Noli de Castro would then be categorized under both Category:People from Oriental Mindoro and Category:People from Mindoro (or Kabilang Ibayo or some other island in Pola if he's not from the main island.) One jurisdictional, and one geographical :) --RioHondo (talk) 20:03, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
        • That would be a good way to do it, but once there's a category for people from Pola that would be the category used instead of per island, province or region category as that would be overcategorization. –HTD 05:03, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
• After looking it over, support move and the conversion of the island's article into a WP:CONCEPTDAB page. Red Slash 00:26, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
• See related discussion at Talk:Leyte (island)#Requested_move --RioHondo (talk) 05:03, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
• Support per Red Slash. Generally, a reader coming across a dab constitutes a failure on our part. Sometimes there's just no way to tell what they're looking for, so that's acceptable. But when there's a good commonsense WP:CONCEPTDAB we can put at that base title instead, we should. --BDD (talk) 19:24, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
• Semi Support. Better: Samar - as a dab and then Samar (province) and Samar Island. Androoox (talk) 07:03, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Note: This move happend, despite the fact, that there was no majority for the move of the island to the title "Samar". Androoox (talk) 11:44, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Requested move (February 2014)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 19:31, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Samar → Samar Island – Fails WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.. While there was clear support for Samar->Samar (province), there was not that much for having the plain name be associated with the island. It was not at all discussed the importance of items from India or Israel. There are many people named Samar. Some links:

• Samar (name)
• Samar, Israel
• Samar (1999 film), a Hindi/Urdu film
• Samar (2013 film), an Indian Tamil film
• Samar (yacht), one of longest motor yachts
• Samar cobra (Naja samarensis)

If until recently the province was thought of to be primary, then it probably was close in importance to the island. But if the two are close and many others exist, how can it be assured the current name does not violate WP:PRIMARYTOPIC? I will inform WikiProject India and Israel. Androoox (talk) 23:53, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

• Quick comment: we just had a requested move about this, directly above. Red Slash 02:56, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • There does not appear to have been consensus for the outcome that the above RM ended with, since there doesn't appear to be the necessary support for "Samar island" to move to "Samar", so the outcome appears to be in error. -- 70.50.148.248 (talk) 06:46, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. The 40th largest island in the world with population close to 2million is obviously more notable than a community of "50 to 100 families". And populated places are always more notable than films, especially if its not Hollywood. :) The primarytopic has always been Samar in the Philippines. --RioHondo (talk) 03:32, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Two million. LOL. How ignorant. How many people know the name Samar? Androoox (talk) 20:36, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. For one we just had a recent RM. Second, yes, we can discuss the relative importance of various topics in order to determine what the primary topic is, but doing it as a move request is not appropriate. —seav (talk) 04:24, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support per nom. The Arabic name would be a very likely topic, as it is very common. A disambniguation page should exist at "Samar". -- 70.50.148.248 (talk) 06:39, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose, too broad and in this case unnec. and too soon after previous discussion. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 08:33, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • The previous discussion didn't even support the outcome. This is topic hijacking by some Philippine-phil editors. Androoox (talk) 20:43, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
• Strong oppose and speedy close. Note to closing admin, we've already discussed the previous RM before and certainly follows WP:TAMBAY and WP:MOSPHIL standards. ApprenticeFan ^work 23:20, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Those standards would only count if the entire world were just the Philippines. We also need to determine if the island is the primary topic. The previous move request does not indicate such a result. -- 70.50.148.248 (talk) 00:51, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
  • A group of Philippine-phil editors seems to make fun of the English Wikipedia. That is very bad for the reputation of this website. Editor numbers are already shrinking - despite more people having access to the internet. Androoox (talk) 11:40, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Island area

There is uncertainty about the land area of Negros and Samar, and depending on the source, one is larger than the other. See Talk:Negros (island)#Island area for discussion. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 18:06, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

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