Talk:San Francisco tech bus protests

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Needs work

This article needs a lot of work and rewrite. Especially the last paragraph of the controversy section .Specifically some of the phrases such as, "In 2013, Google had $14.9 billion in revenues and they can certainly afford to pay more to use their buses in SF and Oakland." Sockistan (talk) 17:01, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. To pick a single example: The article puts "unfair" (modifying evictions) in Wikipedia's voice, we're not here to decide what is and isn't "fair". --j⚛e decker^talk 04:22, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I've left a note at WP:NPOVN. I don't have time to sort this, I'm afraid. --j⚛e decker^talk 04:37, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Google bus protests. Xoloz (talk) 01:53, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

---

Google Bus → Google bus protests – The primary topic of the material in the article is not the buses, it is the organized opposition to them. Very little is said about the busses themselves. I would be quite open to other ideas for the article title, but I think the title needs to reflect that the primary topic here is the protests, not the buses. Note that we have four sources, all of which are about the protests and the aftereffects of those protests (the $1 fee), for example. j⚛e decker^talk 17:32, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree. I'd prefer Google Bus protests since including the year in the title seems unnecessary. GabrielF (talk) 02:33, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

• Support just plain Google Bus protests, at least in principle. I nominated this article for deletion, but in case it is kept, the article title ought to reflect the real scope of the article, which is not the day-to-day operation of the bus service, Miscellaneous user (talk) 03:18, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose – More correct styling (case and punctuation and number format) would be 2013–14 Google bus protests per MOS:CAPS, MOS:DASH, WP:DATERANGE. No need to capitalize bus or other generic terms. I'd support Google bus protests. Dicklyon (talk) 17:02, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

  As nominator, I have absolutely no opposition to modifying my own to be MOS-compliant as you suggest. Do you think we should also avoid the years? It would seem so. I don't really care on the date either way, my primary concern is fixing the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC issue. So Google bus protests would leave me happy. --j⚛e decker^talk 18:05, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

  OK, I can support now. Dicklyon (talk) 22:13, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

  Thanks for the corrections! --j⚛e decker^talk 22:28, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Note since everyone here appears to prefer Google bus protests, I've modified the proposal. --j⚛e decker^talk 18:10, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Anthony Levandowski incident

User:Joe Decker removed a couple of sentences about a protest at the home of a Google engineer. Both the protestors themselves and the media link this to the Google bus protests. The protest group wrote: "After previous actions against the Google buses, many critics insisted that the individual Google employees are not to blame. Taking this deeply to heart, we chose to block Anthony Levandowski’s personal commute."[1]. According to Ars Technica: "After protesting at his home for 45 minutes, the group marched to a Google bus pickup in South Berkeley and blocked it for about 30 minutes."[2]

Other sources have also seen this incident as part of the larger protest. The LA Times wrote an article about the protest of Levandowski's house titled "'Google Bus' protests escalate as activists target employee's home"[3].GabrielF (talk) 02:48, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree that seems connected by that source. Thanks! I'd only add that I think a little thought is warranted about any possible inclusion of Levandowski's name, if he is an otherwise unnotable engineer. I'm not saying don't do it, but if he's being (say) made a specific target of what is alleged to be a set of anti-gentrification/shuttle protests aimed at a technology company, I retain some concern that we might be paritipating in a lynch mob not being particularly concerned about who they target. Perhaps I simply haven't read enough about the subject, but a lot of the connections between the elements here seem pretty hard to make sense of. Never mind the question of whether I agree with them, was Levandowski targeted in anti-gentrification/shuttle protests for any other reason than his employer? The sources above seem to suggest not. --j⚛e decker^talk 04:57, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

NPOV changes to article

This article seems to have many POV issues, such as: "provide free public transit for low-income children in San Francisco for only two years" and "waive the few fines they've received" (emphasis mine). These sections are clearly biased and should be rewritten to be NPOV. —Mark Bao (talk) 16:25, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree. I've restored an older version of that paragraph.GabrielF (talk) 17:58, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I think the article is now sufficiently NPOV so I've removed the notice that I previously added. —Mark Bao (talk) 03:41, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Al-Jazeera citation

I made a small edit to the content drawing upon the Al-Jazeera article, which itself cites A. Goldman's research. The 20% figure is misleading, and should be correctly cited as "up to" 20% (I changed this). I also included the mean change, which more accurately reflects the findings. The raw data taken directly from Goldman's manuscript are copied here for the sake of transparency. All data are exactly as they were presented in the manuscript, but I have added the "Diff" column along with the sum and mean differences. I think that the 20% figure should be removed in lieu of more relevant summary statistic (range or mean), but would like to allow some time for discussion/debate about this. Moreover, the analysis in Goldman's manuscript is very crude -- no inferential statistics were used, and no attempt to place the results in perspective using the overall mean and variance of housing prices in the city as a whole.

Stop Name |#BR |walkable|outside|Difference

Lombard 1 30 17 13

Lombard 2 11 25 -14

Geary 1 10 22 -12

Geary 2 23 12 11

Haight 1 28 23 5

Haight 2 37 27 10

Valenci 1 23 23 0

Valenci 2 27 20 7

Dolores 1 43 23 20

Dolores 2 28 23 5

SUM DIFF 45

MEAN DIFF 4.5

Afossbio (talk) 21:16, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Google bus protests/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 02:33, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo: I will review this article. I'll make some more comments later, but this is from a cursory examination of the article. epicgenius (talk) 02:33, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I look forward to working with you on this nomination! Spintendo      02:43, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

I will make comments as I go.

Main comments

Images

• All appropriately licensed, though adding alt text would be preferable.

Infobox

• The "commuter shuttle program" links to another page, even though it is mentioned later in the article. Maybe this link can be changed to an intra-article link to Google bus protests#Commuter shuttle program?
  •  A:Link changed to subsection lower in the article
• The list of parties to this conflict is not particularly accessible to those with screen readers, plus the formatting is off (e.g. Yahoo! is spaced much further down from the rest of the tech companies). This could be solved using a plainlist.
  •  A: I'm not sure if I got the formatting correct. Check again and let me know if its still not viewable
    • OK, I formatted it a bit more. I replaced the line breaks with a plainlist. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Lead

• community based should contain a hyphen since this is a single phrase used as an adjective.
  •  A:hypen added
• Some of these references are used only in the lead. I think you can move these references down to the body, as well as some of the details that these sources support. For instance, the commuters driving by themselves would be a good detail to add to the body.
  •  A: Im not sure which references should be moved and which statements could remain, so I moved what was in the lead to a lower paragraph and rewrote the lead without references, using information already cited elsewhere.
• The lead should contain some details of actions taken during the protests.
  •  A:Rewrote a brief synopsis of the protests
    • OK, but now the lead is missing the dates on which the protests ended. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
• Could the commuter shuttle program be briefly described? One sentence about the program, and how it helped stop the protests, would be essential to the lead.
  •  A:Briefly described

Background

• pars pro toto means "parts of the whole". I interpreted that to mean that these buses aren't strictly operated by Google, so there are also Facebook buses. However, this article doesn't make that clear, so I was confused at the mention of Apple, Facebook, etc. at first.
  •  A: Latin term returned to the lead section as the second sentence.

Transportation needs

• What is the purpose of including the names of these authors? Are they notable? Generally, if these writers are not notable, or authorities on their respective topics, or mentioned multiple times in the article, the names of authors wouldn't be included in the prose.
  •  A: Author's names removed
• These inadequate links between San Francisco and Silicon Valley workplaces became a leading factor in the initial acceptance in 2008 by Silicon Valley employers of Google buses as viable alternatives for transportation - this is awkwardly worded. How about this: "These inadequate links between San Francisco and Silicon Valley workplaces became a leading factor in Silicon Valley employers' 2008 acceptance of Google buses as viable alternatives for transportation".
  •  A: Rephrase implemented
• So, did these services actually start in 2008? Or was the concept just thought up by then, and the implementation rolled-out later? If it was the former, you can state that.
  •  A: Started in 2005 with perhaps one company, then slowly, additional companies starting using them. By 2008 they were well established and visible every day on streets in SF. From 2008 till 2013 they operated without mass opprobrium (which, just like the shuttles themselves, first started with one or two groups, then slowly grew to become a large concerted group of many many activist groups working singularly or together in opposition.) Media focus came in 2013-2014. Changed sentence to say leading factor in Silicon Valley employers' 2008 acceptance implementation of Google buses
    • It seems like the services became widely used by 2008. I couldn't find any mention of this in the reference, though. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
• Are there any figures on the ridership of existing systems (e.g. BART, Muni bus/tram) before the buses were implemented?
  •  A: Approx 80,000 people commute in and out of SF each morning on the transports shown below, for 2010 and 2015. (AM only)

Transportation Usage Per Person
AM Travel Only - Not PM
SF Bay Area

System	2010	2015
BART	9,828	13,738
Caltrain	1,892	2,936
Muni Metro	6,408	8,550
Muni Streetcar	499	780
Muni Bus	11,397	11,745
CSP (Google buses)	N/A Unknown	9,800
SamTrans	350	382
Personal car	24,898	23,159
Bicycle/Walk	9,065	10,543

Notes

References

• Thanks. I was thinking maybe the Google Buses' ridership can be compared to the mass transit figures. It looks like BART usage went up a lot, and Muni Metro went up less. If there are any pre-2008 figures, this would show even more of a contrast. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Ridership on the Google buses wasn't tracked before 2014, so that figure cannot be known. The other ridership profiles from pre-2010 I'm sure I can find.

OK, just let me know if you can find that info. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

 A: I was able to find figures for the year 2000, but the numbers represented totals used per year, and these figures used above were totals for an average weekday during the AM commute. Unfortunately, the company that put together this last report with all the nice data weren't the ones doing reports 20 years ago. I've noticed that as far as reportmaking goes, traffic wardens such as SFMTA are really big on future projections. Past data, and finding it easily, is a task which apparently does not concern them too much, as it is not as easily found. Spintendo      03:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Gentrification

• namely, gentrification - The comma isn't needed here.
  •  A:Removed
• coupled with the suburban locations of tech companies - There should be two commas around this phrase. otherwise, it's a run-on.
  •  A:Added
• served to isolate tech workers from other San Francisco residents, in a manner similar to gated communities - On the other hand, the comma wouldn't be needed if you added commas around the above phrase.
  •  A:Check the commas here, I reworded a bit and added some.
    • I meant something like this, which reads more smoothly.
• On another note, are there any figures on fares? This would be really good for explaining the gentrification aspect. A bus that charges $6.50 per fare (like the express bus fare in NYC) would be very controversial indeed.
  •  A:Regarding Google buses, riders of the Google buses do not pay for their use of the shuttles. This is considered to be provided by their employers for them without cost. The company pays the city of San Francisco a fee, $7.31 per stop, regardless of who gets off or gets on. The city considers this to be payment for use of the stop. Regarding city buses, the average citizen who rides the city bus must pay to use the city bus. Their fee is $2.75 for a regular fare one way. Regular citizens are not allowed to ride on the Google buses, if they attempt to board, which they did during the protests, they are barred from entry. Only employees of the tech companies providing the shuttles are allowed to travel using the Google buses. During one of the protests, an activist group tried passing out what they called "Gmuni" passes. They said that these passes would allow regular people to ride the Google buses for free. But of course the passes didnt work, and they werent allowed on board. The Gmuni program was an April Fools Day themed protest. Video footage of it is in the External links section.
    • That's interesting. I've never heard of a pay-per-stop funding format. Were there any figures for per-stop payments before this? If not, then thay's fine. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

The city did not collect fees from the shuttles before 2014. According to the city's information:

Under California state law, permit programs are cost-recovery, so fee revenues must be used only for administration of the permit program. The permit fee for participation in the Commuter Shuttle Program is $7.31 per stop event and will continue at this rate under the proposed legislation. The fee will be reviewed and adjusted if necessary as part of the two-year SFMTA budget process. Prior to August 2014, San Francisco did not regulate or collect fees from commuter shuttles. Shuttles operated throughout the City on both large arterial and small non-arterial streets. Shuttles loaded and unloaded passengers in a variety of places whether it was legal or not, including white loading zones, red Muni zones, and other vacant curb spaces. When curb space was unavailable, shuttles often would load or unload passengers in the travel lane. The lack of rules for where and when loading and unloading were permitted resulted in confusion for shuttle operators and neighbors, inconsistent enforcement, and real and perceived conflicts with other transportation modes. Thus, when Google buses finally gave way to commuter shuttles, the era of uncoordinated confusion was ultimately vanquished by a calm collection of fees.

Spintendo      08:00, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

What you just wrote would actually be pretty helpful to add to the article. Before, I was a little confused as to why people would be protesting over privately used buses, since they are common in NYC where I live. The explanation - the Google buses operating without having to pay a fee to the city - makes much more sense for the reader. Another interesting note is how the Google buses would have loaded/unloaded anywhere, even in the middle of traffic, and how the commuter shuttles paying a per-stop fee to the city reduced this. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Notes

References

• I like that Rebecca Solnit explains that these are unmarked buses. Are there any other sources for this, especially objective sources? This ref is fine, but by itself it's a criticism piece that's being used to source a factual statement.
  •  A: 2nd reference describing the buses as "unmarked" appended to the text under Solnit's blockquote

Dueling transportation systems

• most notably, the shuttles' usage of existing, public bus stops - Neither comma is needed. Also, I think you can drop "existing" unless the public buses also used new bus stops, since it's implied these public stops already exist.
  •  A:Removed extra commas and existing
• usage that the City of San Francisco was not compensated for - does this refer to private buses using public bus stops, or the congestion?
  •  A:Both, in that the delays and congestion which resulted from the uncoordinated ballet of buses which affected the city buses' timeliness were not alleviated by monetary compensation when the protests first began. The city had to rely only on the monies it collected from people riding their buses, which was 2.00 per person per stop. The Commuter Shuttle Program now allows the city to collect upwards of almost $8.00 per stop from the Google buses, and the buses are coordinated and the streets they use are well defined, so there are never incidents where Google buses are somewhere on a certain street at a certain time when they shouldn't be. And the drivers are bonded and trained similar to city bus drivers. Spintendo      12:57, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
    • OK, so I guess you can clarify this in a new sentence, similar to this: "The City of San Francisco was not compensated for the Google buses' usage of public bus stops, nor for the congestion that resulted when city buses tried to use these stops at the same time." This isn't the best wording, but that's what I can discern from the article and what you told me. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

The city was not compensated for usage of their bus stops. Everything that results from that is, I suppose, lesser avenues of non-compensation. Like at a restaurant, the menu will list the prices of certain dishes. But that isn't the actual price of the food described in the menu. The price factors in incidentals such as labor, property taxes paid by the restaurant, health insurance, electricity, etc. That fee pays for all of those things, but to ensure an economy of terms, its labeled simply as the cost of dinner.

I see. I guess it is an indirect loss of money, such as when the congestion has a negative economic impact on the city. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

More later. epicgenius (talk) 02:16, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

New additions:

Lead

• groups goals - "group's" should have an apostrophe.
  •  A: Apostrophe's added.
• bestowed legitimacy upon - this seems subjectively worded, I'd just say "gave legitimacy to".
  •  A: Reworded as suggested.

Background

• I think you can clarify that the general public couldn't get onto the Google/Facebook/etc buses.
  •  A: I reworded the sentence as The buses are used to ferry only specific employees from designated companies from their homes...

Protests - Direct action

• December 9, 2013 - Just to be grammatically correct, in American English, if a "Month Day, Year" date appears in the middle of the sentence, there are commas after the year. For example, The protests started on December 9, 2013, when activists from a group called Heart of the City blocked and entered a double-decker bus used by Google.
  •  A: Changed to 9 December 2013, (with a comma after the year)
    • @Spintendo: OK, but now you have inconsistent date formats, like "9 December 2013" and "April 1, 2014". epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
• in San Francisco's Mission District, at 24th Street and Valencia Street - I'd switch around "at 24th Street and Valencia Street" and "in San Francisco's Mission District". The intersection is mentioned later in the article, so it should be mentioned first just so readers don't get the impression that it was a generic intersection in the Mission District.
  •  A: Switched as suggested.
• Ref 20, "Seattle Gets Its Own Tech Bus Protest", refers to Seattle protests. So the protests extended not only to Oakland but also to other cities as far away as Seattle. This should be mentioned in the text.
  •  A: Seattle mentioned. That reference was here before I even started on the article, and I've never cared much for it. I'm not really certain how much of a Seattle protest scene there actually was or whether that was jumping on the bandwagon.
• In isolated incidents across the bay in Oakland - you can remove "across the bay" since this exact phrase appeared within the same paragraph, making this redundant.
  •  A: accross the bay removed
• a protester broke a window of one bus and slashed the tire of another. - This sounds like it's the same protester, but these are clearly different protesters. I'd suggest replacing "a protester" with "protesters", even if only one protester did each action, since there were two protesters here.
  •  A: Two unrelated protestors delineated
• loaudspeaker - is a typo.
  •  A: Loudspeaker corrected
• The April Fool's blockage seemed to have occurred before a key vote on a plan to charge these tech companies to use the bus stops. I think this can be mentioned, either here or in the "Resolution" section.
  •  A: The $1.00 fee discussed in the reference during the January 2014 meeting was part of the 18-month test program which began in July 2014, six months after the January meeting which saw its initial approval and creation. I've clarified this timing better in the relevant statement.

Police response

• de–escalate - This seems more like a place where a hyphen, rather than an endash, is used - simply because the hyphen is used in the middle of single words, as is the case here.
  •  A: It was using whichever punctuation is used in the wiktionary article, but I've changed it here to a simple hyphen.
• other, more appropriate means - What are examples of these "more appropriate means"?
  •  A: Anything short of taking them into custody, such as mediated discussion, suggestions, or in the case of the April Fools Day protest, the police simply allowed the organizer to have her say, ensuring opportunities for both press photos to be taken and the collective group "chant and/or rallying cry" to be made towards the end. After that, the two groups (the Google bus riders and the Google bus protestors) went their separate ways. The protestors got the publicity they wanted and their message heard, while the bus riders were delayed for 30 minutes in what was essentially a minor inconvenience. From what I've read, the police culture 30 years ago might not have enabled such a peaceful end to that kind of a disruption to street traffic in SF. They could have pulled batons on people and made things really messy and mean. So when you look at the face of the officer in the video I mentioned, you can't help but laugh at the puzzled yet bemused look on his face as he listens first to the organizer on her loudspeaker while observing dance performers in red and blue costumes doing yoga and upside down leg splits and headstands all right there on Valencia in 8am traffic. All of that and it ended with no one hurt and no one in jail. I believe that this is owed a great deal to the change in police culture over the years along with the police policy changes, which I referenced. I understand that what's needed is to elaborate in the article what "appropriate means" means... perhaps if I changed it to "more non-confrontational means" or perhaps "more proactive means" I dunno. What do you suggest? Spintendo      08:00, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
    • I think "non-confrontational means" would work just fine - it's all encompassing while not vague. But now that you mention it, an example would work even better. It can be just a phrase, like this: "non-confrontational means, such as communicating with non-compliant subjects". (In this particular example, I used Ref 25 "Use of Force Proposed General Order / Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST)", p. 4.) epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

More later. epicgenius (talk) 17:17, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

 A: Suggested changes to this sentence were made.

OK, finishing prose portion:

Resolution - SF Board of Supervisors

• stepped in - this is problematic when combined with "early on", though the phrase is fine by itself. How about "intervened"?
  •  A: I've changed this sentence to just bypass the problematic phrasing.
• Tech shuttles - I think you should clarify to "Tech shuttle operators" because the operators were the entities who would've been subject to the $1-per-stop-per-day fee.
  •  A: The fees charged to the shuttle operators were immediately passed on to the tech companies. As they are the ones who hired the shuttles, they are the ones responsible for the payments, if not directly to the city, then to the shuttle companies which fronted the fees for them.
• Angry residents, citing the $2 fee[a] San Franciscans had to pay to board city buses - The note interrupts the flow of the phrase. You can clarify the $2 fee in the prose itself, rather than in the footnote, because I'm not sure the current fare is relevant at this point in the article (which is explaining the residents' anger at the 2014 fares). So like this, "Angry residents, citing the $2 fee San Franciscans had to pay at the time to board city buses,". But if you're sure you want to keep the current fee, I guess you can move the note to after the comma.
  •  A: I've moved the note to after the period.
• The SFMTA's full name should be spelled out on the first mention.
  •  A: This is not the first time it is being mentioned. Since that earlier mention takes place in the paragraph marked Transportation needs way at the beginning of the article, and since other editors may overlook the earlier mention or may read the article out of sequence, I've changed this second mention to use the full title as well.
• Six months later in July 2014, - This is missing a comma. I see three alternatives for this phrase. You can write "Six months later" or "in July 2014" or "Six months later, in July 2014,".
  •  A: Comma added.
• during its 18 months in effect - This is clunky because the 18 months don't belong to the fee, so to speak. How about: "during the 18 months that it was to be in effect".
  •  A: Changed to the suggested version.

Tech companies response

• In the header, Companies' should have an apostrophe at the end.
  •  A: Apostrophe added.
• Alexandra Goldman with UC Berkeley City Planning released details of her research on the "shuttle effect" - At first read, it's confusing as to whether Goldman worked with UC Berkeley, or whether Goldman is from UC Berkeley. From reading the reference, I think it's the latter. You should write "Alexandra Goldman, a UC Berkeley City Planning student, released details of her research on the "shuttle effect"." or something similar.
  •  A: I've removed the Goldman information.
• stating that rents rise up to 20% around Google bus stops. The average change was 5% - This should be combined into a single sentence and split off from the previous sentence about Goldman. So the new sentences could read like this, "Alexandra Goldman, a UC Berkeley City Planning student, released details of her research on the "shuttle effect". She stated that rents rise up to 20% around Google bus stops, compared to the average citywide change of 5%."
  •  A: This claim was removed.
• To that effect, the ref in the article, Ref 30 "Curbing the Google bus", doesn't mention the 5% figure. In fact, that reference says that rents near Google bus stops rose up to 20 percent more rapidly (direct quote) than the city's average. By the way, Goldman's research can be linked directly here, and it even has an interesting map on page 17 (but that's just a side note). This same source, on page 15, also says the median rent rose 10.6 percent from February 2012 to February 2013.
  •  A: This claim was removed. Ms. Goldman is a person and not a tech company herself, so whatever input she had to offer would not be relevant here.

Commuter shuttle program

• You can unlink SFMTA (which is linked three times in this section alone), since you already linked it above. But if you spell it out at the first instance, like I mentioned above, the link would not be needed.
  •  A: Unlinked.
• from then on - a synonym is "thereafter".
  •  A: Thereafter used.
• initial end date of March 31, 2017 - the mention of March 31, 2017, is redundant since you already mentioned it.
  •  A:This usage here was not redundant, as the first mention uses the date because the term "extension" implies that there is no expiration, as extensions are used to extend expirations. The next sentence then mentions another extension which leads to confusion: is this the first extension, or another extension? By setting out at the first mention of an extension that it was to expire at a certain point (the March date) the second extension is not as confusing. The date of the second extension's creation simultaneously marks the end of the first extension.

Isolated incidents

• What's the relevance of this section to the original protests? Was a connection explicitly denied?
  •  A: I don't believe this statement has any relevance to anything in the article — but then again, I am not the editor who added it. I simply moved it from its original placement under the Direct action subheading, to the more-chronologically correct place at the end of the article.
• several of them had their windows broken while occupied and moving - I think this should occur earlier in the sentence. But since this borders into a run-on, it should be split into two sentences anyway. Like this. "In early 2018, media reported that isolated attacks against the buses had occurred. Several buses had their windows broken while occupied and moving, prompting Apple and Google to reroute their shuttles."
• "A normal Greyhound bus", which I presume is this, doesn't clarify things for readers, especially those unfamiliar with Greyhound. Greyhound seems to be irrelevant anyway. A better term is "coach buses" since this doesn't bring Greyhound into the article at all.
  •  A: I'm deleting this part as more trouble than it is worth. If the editor who added it would like it to remain, then they can come here and make these changes themself to that part of the article.

I will check the references later. This seems to be an okay article, but is missing a few key details on the motivations for the protests (specifically how the tech companies could use bus stops without paying for them). A few more examples of protests would be nice, but not to the point where there's a day-by-day timeline, which would be excessive. Instead, I think there should be details on the examples of banners that the protesters had, and the protesters' proposed remedies. This is a very interesting topic, and with a few more detail additions, could be really useful for readers. epicgenius (talk) 22:42, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

• @Spintendo: Thank you for your response. In "Tech companies' response", I also have another issue:
  • On 31 March 2014, tech-advocacy group sf.citi, led by Ron Conway, angel investor in Google and other tech companies, released a statement of support for SFMTA's pilot program. has too many commas. Obviously, the phrase led by Ron Conway, angel investor in Google and other tech companies is a descriptor for the phrase tech-advocacy group sf.citi. But that is still a lot of commas. How about this: "On 31 March 2014, tech-advocacy group sf.citi—led by Ron Conway, angel investor in Google and other tech companies—released a statement of support for SFMTA's pilot program." Or you can replace the dashes with parentheses, or just put the "angel investor in Google and other tech companies" phrase in parentheses. epicgenius (talk) 19:12, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

 A: The sentence on Mr. Conway has been decommafied.

References

Because the main review was so big, I have to review the references in another section. I will do a quick review of the references themselves, and also spot check to see if they verify the content.

References

• Ref 4 "San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt" is from the Guardian. For consistency, there should be an ISSN as well, since ISSN is included in other sources like #3 and #13. ISSN: 0261-3077.
  •  A:This already states the Guardian. The only sources which use an ISSN is one journal article where the software, if you add the reference using the DOI's URL, automatically adds an ISSN. The other publication I specifically placed the ISSN in it because there was no other linked way of identifying it (it was a "dark reference" so to speak, which is a references which contains no links whatsoever, thus as nothing is highlighted with the blue linked font, the reference is "dark". It's a personal preference of mine not to use dark references if at all possible.)
• Ref 8 "District 5 Diary: Google buses: pro and con" is a Blogspot article. How is it reliable?
  • ✗ Deleted reference
• Ref 9 "Public Transportation Reduces Greenhouse Gases and Conserves Energy" needs page numbers, as it's a PDF. It also needs a publisher, and a date if applicable. If you can't find the date, it's fine, although this source has statistics that are dated.
  • ✗ Deleted reference
• Ref 14, 18, 20, and 22 are from the NY Times. It also should have ISSN for consistency. ISSN: 0362-4331.
  •  Desired action is unknown When you say that they are from the New York Times, are you asking if they are? Or are you repeating it for good measure. I would agree that they are all from the New York Times.
    • I'm repeating it for good measure. But let me put it this way: if you have an ISSN in some references but not in others, it is going to look pretty inconsistent. epicgenius (talk) 19:08, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

• ✗ Deleted The two instances where international standard serial numbers were used have been removed.

• Refs 22 and 24 are not dead links, so you should set them to |dead-url=no.
  •  Desired action is unknown
    • Set them to |dead-url=no from |dead-url=yes. epicgenius (talk) 19:08, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

• ? Reference section numbering is handled by the MediaWiki software and is not static, meaning that calling something "References No. 22 and 24" may not mean the same thing as it did one or two edits ago. Accordingly, this direction does not help in making these changes. Is there an author listed with these references?

• My mistake. These seem to be Ref 19 "Tech Rides Are Focus of Hostility in Bay Area", and Ref 21 "April Fool's Protesters Block Google Bus In San Francisco Ahead Of Key Vote". epicgenius (talk) 00:35, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

•  A: I placed the dead url parameters to "no" on both of those references. Was it just those two or were there others?

• Just these two.

• Refs 32 and 34 are exact duplicates of each other. Maybe you'd like to add an archive link as well, because fees change.
  •  There is a slight difference They are identical links, but they direct the reader to separate areas of the page based on their titles. The first link's title directs the reader to the section heading marked Project updates while the second link's title directs readers to the section heading marked Fees. Normally, this degree of attention to where the reader ought to look would not be necessary. However, the linked page in question contains no-less than 14 headings and subheadings all within a single page. Placing the two links helps to further delineate where the reader out to be looking.
    • OK, I see. epicgenius (talk) 19:08, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Further reading

• Any chance you can integrate these into the text? This may seem like a lot, but could be used to support new details.

That's it for now. I will verify the refs' content soon, though I have already pointed out a few issues above. epicgenius (talk) 01:50, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Spot check

• Ref 16 "In A Divided San Francisco, Private Tech Buses Drive Tension" doesn't really verify the sentence This sparked other groups across the bay in Oakland and out of state in Seattle to protest private tech commuter buses in their areas.. In fact, this reference talks more about the inequality.
  •  A: This reference has been relocated.
• Ref 25 "Google, Yahoo Worker Buses Prompt Backlash; San Francisco Will Start Regulating Shuttles That Take Employees to Silicon Valley" is paywalled.
  •  A: Replaced.
• Ref 27 "Opposing sides rally troops for tech bus throw-down" doesn't seem to be working.
  •  A: This reference has been fixed.
• Ref 29 "Protest Blocks Tech Buses as SF Supes Mull Program Extension" should also be used to cite the phrase Sporadic protesting continued until February 2016.
  •  A: Reference extended.

Looks like all the issues have been responded to or resolved. I will make a decision about this article later today. epicgenius (talk) 16:40, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Before you do that, I have some more protests Id like to add to beef up that section. Spintendo      00:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Great, I was going to suggest exactly that. epicgenius (talk) 00:12, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Just a few small comments:

• I've read the lead several times now and I'm still none the wiser as to why the community was protesting. At a basic level, the lead is saying Protests happened. Protests were not just for Google. Strategy used by protests. Government fixed the issue.. It needs to include Community angry because XXX. Reading further down it seems that the issue of having a "two-level" transportation framework was the key issue behind the community's unrest, but that's not communicated very clearly even in the body.
• messaging by the protesting group's disseminated does not need a apostrophe, and that sentence is just generally clunky.

TheDragonFire (talk) 08:32, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

@TheDragonFire:Thank you for your feedback! I agree that the lead was not doing as best as it could to descibe things here. I've altered the text in the lead to try to communicate better what the main issues were. If you could take a look at this new lead and let us know if it works, it would be much appreciated! Spintendo      05:12, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

I've added a few more incidents, and reshuffled them so they describe SF protests in one paragraph and Oakland protests in a second paragraph (although I hope I'm not artificially creating some kind of distinction between the "erudite" SFranciscans and the "heathen" Oaklanders, because that wasn't my intent, although I can see how it might look that way). I also redid the lead. Let me know if those work. Thnx Spintendo      17:10, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo and TheDragonFire: I think almost everything is OK with this article now. There's one thing in the lead I still have a problem with: the quote "as both a literal expression of privatized infrastructure, and a symbolic expression of economic inequality" isn't directly attributed in the prose. It seems to be written by graduate students on their Blogspot, though, and I'm not sure whether this would be the most reliable source for this observation. There's probably some other source that makes this same observation, and I'd like to see if that source could be found first. epicgenius (talk) 14:04, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

 A: I replaced the quote with one from Abigail De Kosnik.Spintendo      19:49, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, could you explain who De Kosnik is? The ref is fine, but I'm not familiar with her, and the average reader probably wouldn't, either. epicgenius (talk) 02:51, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

 A: Abigail De Kosnik is an Assistant Professor at the University of California, Berkeley and the Berkeley Center for New Media. I've also added that description of her to the article. Spintendo      03:32, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Looks good. I'm passing this article now. I commend you for your nice work on this page, and I appreciate that the issues were resolved so quickly. epicgenius (talk) 16:04, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Suggested rename of article to "Tech bus protests (San Francisco)" or "Tech worker bus protests (Bay Area)" or ...?

@Epicgenius @Spintendo @anyone else interested:

Firstly, I haven't followed this subject much or read all the references...BUT, it seems to me that these protests (as the lead explains) are against buses from many tech companies, not just Google.

Was the phrase "Google buses" the normal phasing used in the press? Is it the most commonly used? I think Wikipedia should use the most commonly used terms for these events. (I created two redirects to this page, Tech worker bus protests and Tech bus protests.

Does the current name give UNDUE press/weighting to Google, when others: Facebook, Apple, etc. should also be talked about similarly?

I'm putting this out there for others who are more familiar with the press coverage that these events received to offer their views here.

Thanks!! Avatar317 (talk) 01:35, 6 June 2018 (UTC)Avatar317

@Avatar317: If this article were to be renamed, I would suggest not using parentheses in the title, because of WP:NATURALDAB (no other articles with the exact title "Tech bus protests"). How about "San Francisco tech bus protests", "Bay Area tech bus protests", etc.? epicgenius (talk) 01:37, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

While in the beginning it seemed that the majority of sources referred to it by its pars pro toto, media-given name of Google bus, as the reporting on it has bloomed and the distance from the present to when the protests occurred has grown, more and more sources have been comfortable referring to them as "tech buses". So I think it may be time to revist the question. I like Epic's name suggestion, however the protests occurred across the bay in Oakland as well, so just saying San Francisco might be limiting. San Francisco Bay Area tech bus protests could work, but there were protests which occurred in Seattle, although the article only mentions those in passing. Tech bus protests puts it succinctly, but a lot of the protest anger came as the result of issues particular to the bay area, so that might be too generalized. The 1960s Berkeley protests is one example where a movement which originated in one area (Berkeley) moved to others (the wider bay area) but who's label remains fixed on the sentinel event location, so perhaps just San Francisco would work.  spintendo  03:10, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: @Avatar317: Since the three of us are all agreed that the name may need a change, I'm going to go ahead and begin the requested move process. Since as nominator I will not be allowed to contribute to the discussion beyond the nomination statement, I urge you both to contribute your views already expressed here to that move discussion, which will display below. Thank you!  spintendo  19:43, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 10 June 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 22:33, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

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Google bus protests → San Francisco tech bus protests – A perusal of the sources on this has media referrals to the event cleanly split 50/50 between the terms "Google bus" (which was how they were first referred to) and "tech bus" (which quickly became a just-as-common term used). WP:COMMONTERM states: "When there are multiple names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others." The problems as mentioned in that guidance here are that the use of the term "Google bus" is pars pro toto — it only describes a segment of the actual buses involved in the protests. Changing the name would correct this problem. 13-JUN-2018: Note to closer—If after 7 days no additional !votes have been posted beyond the one already given, please feel free at your discretion to close this request as not moved, rather than re-list it. Thank you.  spintendo  02:17, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

• Support - From what news articles I saw on this subject, it seems that the greatest number of protests (and the start of these types of protests) occurred in San Francisco, and it was a result of the fact that many new tech workers who work in Silicon Valley CHOOSE to live in San Francisco. Since the public transportation from S.F. down the peninsula is poor, and the roads are overburdened with traffic, the tech companies started offering these shuttle services for their employees to be able to work while commuting. The combination of new residents to S.F. with high incomes, and the lack of sufficient new housing, has caused rents and home prices in S.F. to become THE highest in the nation. (S.F. is kind of the "poster-child" for the housing shortage that is happening in many rapidly growing metros in the U.S.) Protestors then view these busses as symbols of change in "their" city that they don't like. The same housing situation is occurring in Seattle with Amazon and Microsoft's high paid workers, but Seattle has been building faster than S.F. recently, though I have read of a few similar protests in Seattle. I therefore agree with Spintendo's comments (above the requested move) about a movement which started in one area and spread to other areas with similar issues/circumstances. ---- Avatar317 (talk) 21:53, 11 June 2018 (UTC)Avatar317
• Support: "Google bus" is no longer accurate, even if still fairly common. Google was just the first company providing the buses.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:03, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Dicklyon (talk) 03:47, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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