Talk:Saturday (novel)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mm40 (talk) 21:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi there, I'm Mm40 (talk · contribs) and I'll be reviewing the article for GA status. I'll be watching this page, and I'll be very active over the next few days, so any comments/questions you have for me can be left here. Thanks, Mm40 (talk) 21:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, a number of issues are present in the article. Comparing it against the good article criteria:

1(a): "the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct" While this is not the largest issue, a copy-edit is highly reccomended. The below issues are coming just from the lead: *I don't feel "the invasion of Iraq" is enough background; someone reading this in 20 years may or may not know what this refers to

This pipe link was changed, so this is now a wikilink to the event. The date is also given. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

*"planned a series of jobs and pleasures" sounds a bit odd; why is it necessary to note that a neurosurgeon plans on going to work? Wouldn't that be expected?

'Jobs' meant chores, that is clear from the text. Changed--Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• "encounter with violence" is unclear; the article can be more specific

*"The novel explores a sense place in the modern world" isn't comprehensible

removed--Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

*Missing an "it": "very existence in are questioned"

fixed. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

*The sentence beginning with "For example" doesn't actually seem like an example of the last sentence. It also seems a bit out of place in the lead.

changed. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

*"hailed as an exemplar of fiction post 11 September 2001" as I'm guessing post-9/11 is being used as an adjective for "fiction", this should be reworded "hailed as an exemplar of post-11 September 2001 fiction"

change--Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)d

*Typo: "interwowen"

fixed--Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• In the article in general, the tone is often a bit too informal. Examples include "put some of his own life into", "checked over", and "circle of friends". There is much more present in the Synopsis section. Also, there are contractions such as "didn't" and "he's"

Fixed this problems, will watch for others. "circle of friends" isn't too familiar. Possibly request a copyiedit

Two instances of contractions have been left, since they are in quotation marks. Please change or post other examples. --Ktlynch (talk) 20:13, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

• There are too many one- or two-line paragraphs; each paragraph should be at least three sentences

ok

1(b): "it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, jargon, words to avoid, fiction, and list incorporation" Pretty good in this aspect

• The lead should be expanded a bit, perhaps two well-sized paragraphs

It is about this length already. I feel it's adqueate for an article of this length. Is there anything else that can be included?--Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

2(a): "it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout" The biggest problem with the article is citations not backing up the information they are said to be citing. Below is a spot-check (I only checked a few claims, and most of them appear below) of the Themes section. Also, reference formatting needs work

• Reference 6 (The Times) doesn't support McEwan's earliar work dealing with "the fragility of existence using a clinical perspective"

They are not the author's words, she says (referring to his existing oeuvre) "His precise, taut prose cuts clean as a scalpel, and his forensic intelligence addresses steadily the deepest of human horrors: incest, murder, psychosis, and so on."

The paraphrase may sound a bit like OR, but it is a sincere attempt not to plagiarise the review. --Ktlynch (talk) 20:13, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

*"something must surely be waiting to go wrong" the reference given does not support this; the closest it comes is saying that the main character feels the need to keep working in order to justify his nice lifestyle

changed article to match source more closely--Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• "making him aware of the fragility of life and consciousness's reliance on the functioning brain" I can't find anything of this type in this cited work

Basically, all the references are formatted differently from one another, and many need publishers and retrieval dates. I suggest using the {{cite x}} templates for consistency *Reference one has an author listed on the link, and it needs a period between the date it was published and the date it was retrieved Fixed --Ktlynch (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC) *Reference 2 needs a publisher, publication date, and (presumably) an author Fixed note that this newspaper does not use by-lines.--Ktlynch (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC) *Reference 8 is formatted differently than the 3 refs above it Fixed--Ktlynch (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

• etc.

2(c): "it contains no original research" perhaps the largest issue, most notably the Themes section *The entire first three lines of the section

This are really a summary of what comes below. Have been deleted with no loss. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• "Perowne's composure and success mean the implied violence is in the background", aside from this not making sense
• "Perowne expresses a distaste for some modern literature"

This is mentioned in every single cited work. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• "Perowne's world view is rebutted by his daughter, Daisy, a young poet."

Again mentioned in both the book, and numerous sources. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• "An Iraqi professor he treated has told him of the brutality Saddam Hussein's rule, but also takes seriously his children's concerns about the war."

Just a summation of what happends. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

• "dealing with the change in lifestyle faced by Westerners after the 11th of September attacks"

*The sentence beginning "The protagonist's errands are..."

This one needs a citation then.

Cited from the Zoe Heller article. See the 5th paragraph of the review. --Ktlynch (talk) 14:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

3(a): "it addresses the main aspects of the topic"

• Mainly, the issue here is that it doesn't contain anything on the publication of the book. Outside of the infobox, the publisher's name isn't even mentioned, and that fact that there are four chapters is hidden in the Themes section

Publication information is important in a book article. I added in a line about publication in the first section. Is there anymore specific information you think should be included? I have noticed articles finding it hard to balance this, some give a needless list of different international editions. The style guidelines say that this should be emphaised only if there is interesting information to relate. Aside from the publisher and date, I don't think there is much to tell regarding that. --Ktlynch (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

• Much less of an issue, but it would be nice if the Reception section mentioned how long the book was on the best-seller lists

3(b): "it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail" This is not met in the plot summary; too many minute details are included. Please read through it and see if it directly impacts the plot. For example, you can take out *The times the novel begins and ends--Ktlynch (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

removed

*"He descends to the kitchen and has an amiable conversation with his son Theo" --Ktlynch (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Removed

*He lunches at home, again chatting with his son. Afterward he buys some fish from a local fishmonger for dinner and visits his mother, suffering from vascular dementia, in a nursing home."

removed luncheon, but the others are actually important parts of the novel, beaware that this is a novel about a man's ordinary day, reading the plot synopsis might seem a little boring.--Ktlynch (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Because of these issues, mainly the ones involving referencing, I will unfortunately have to fail this article. I urge you to renominate the article at GAN again once my comments are resolved, and I'd be happy to see if I agree with the changes you've made if you drop a note on my talk page. I hope this article gets promoted eventually, and wish you luck in that regard. Cheers, Mm40 (talk) 21:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)