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Latest comment: 5 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion
And by why I mean what's the REAL reason there is a dispute? Strategic? Economic? If one side (or the other) "wins", then what happens? Also the Lede says it's disputed by "several nations", but only mentions China and the Philippines? Who else? And why? Here because of recent water cannon incident, and the Article seems very deficient in any real details.2603:8081:3A00:30DF:19BE:D09C:B6AA:5F75 (talk) 00:17, 27 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
Terminology: West Philippine Sea vs. South China Sea
Latest comment: 1 month ago11 comments4 people in discussion
Here, I have reverted two anonymous edits [<> here]. The anonymous editor says, 'Since the Ayungin Shoal is located in the Philippines waters then the peculiar terminology used by Philippine government should be correct. It is located in the West Philippine Sea because it is part of the Philippines - Philippine territory uses Philippine terminology". I disagree. The article says, "It is a disputed territory and claimed by several nations.3", so the assertiom that it is located in Philippine waters is clearly WP:POV. Also, the designation, West Philippine Sea is peculiar to the Philippine government, referring to the part of the South China Sea that is covered by the Philippines EEZ, and including waters that may be in the EEZs of other nations. I have invited the IP editor involved to discuss this here. Discussion? Wtmitchell(talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 09:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Here I reverted another edit changing the SCS term to WPS. That reversion was unreverted here, saying The Philippine Maritime Administration which administers the shoal's waters and provides UNCLOS navigation of the waters around the shoal, identifies it as part of the West Philippine Sea. I have undone that unreverrsion, and this begins a WP:BRD discussion re the use of the WPS term vs. the SCS term.
The WPS article mentions, "The term West Philippine Sea has sometimes been incorrectly used to refer to the whole of the South China Sea.[1]", citing a source reporting that the Philippine government's chief presidential legal counsel was apparently confused about that. WP should not spread that confusion. Also, the assertion that the shoal and the waters around it are under the administration of the Philippine government is not WP:NPOV. This article explains that, besides the Philippines, the shoal is claimed by China, Taiwan, and Vietnam; those countries probably do not share that viewpoint. I'll not belabor it further but, as I said in the edit summary of my initial revert, the term West Philippine Sea is peculiar to the Philippine government. The NPOV term to use here is South China Sea. Wtmitchell(talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
There is a presumed consensus since it is simply factual. The West Philippine Sea exists, by virtue of law, and it's widely accepted and used across the world, especially in English speaking countries. If we were on the Chinese Wikipedia it's a different story with massive NPOV issues - seriously go check it out.
For here howeve, we shouldn't need to seek a specific consensual, instead there should only be an argument IF the presumed consensus is questioned. Is that what you are doing? If so, I think the onus is on you to raise the RfC. Aeonx (talk) 17:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Aeonx can you site the sources and outlets "used across the world, especially in English-speaking countries"? From the cleanup edits made by Wtmitchell (for this article) and ChaseKiwi (for Kalayaan, Palawan), it does appear that there is no established consensus in using WPS in geographic articles, let alone as the only location identifier. Only an RfC will change that, and that RfC should be started by an uninvolved user, IMO. JWilz12345(Talk|Contrib's.)06:19, 31 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
As said any change requires serious discussion and a new consensus of how to use WPS without ambiguity in Phillipines orientated articles, which are not just read by Filipinos or those familiar with the relatively new term. I personally have no issue if every use in a geographical sense is consistent with the observation that the term WPS is not defined in international maritime law and it did not even reach the stalled 4th IHO 2002 draft.(IHO draft 4th edition) ChaseKiwi (talk) 16:02, 31 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
^Agcaoili, John Gabriel (25 May 2021). "Panelo confuses West Philippine Sea with whole South China Sea". ABS-CBN News. Retrieved 4 July 2021. "If you say the West Philippine Sea, the basis should be really Administrative Order [No.] 29, which clearly refers to only part of the South China Sea, which is under Philippine jurisdiction. It has never been synonymous with the South China Sea," Batongbacal said.