Talk:Selves (disambiguation)

Requested move 12 February 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page or alter the redirect at this time, per the discussion below. DrVogel: the relevant issues are most concisely covered at WP:PLURALPT. It is worth noting that the concern is not to "justify beyond reasonable doubt that a person who types 'selves' is probably looking for 'self'" in this case. Rather, the burden is on the editor proposing the move to show consensus for a change. In order to engender this sort of consensus, it would likely be necessary instead to show evidence that a preponderance of editors searching for Selves do not intend to arrive at Self. Dekimasuよ! 02:26, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

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Selves (disambiguation) → Selves – there is no primary topic, so that single redirect from several years ago needs to be deleted to make room for the disambiguation page. Thanks! DrVogel (talk) 01:44, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). -- Alex^TW 04:56, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose move. My belief, supported by multiple sources, is that the primary topic for selves is ubiquitously held to be the plural form of self.[1] [2] [3] If disambiguation is necessary, it should remain at Selves (disambiguation) which should denote the primary meaning first and then the additional topics of which it may also be.--John Cline (talk) 05:29, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose: the plural form is the Primary Topic, and the dab page is here appropriately, linked by a hatnote from the redirect target Self. PamD 09:40, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
• Support: the sources given above are dictionaries! And the only entry in the disambiguation page that is a dictionary word is the plural of self! So no wonder it appears when the others don't. And results from Google are also optimised for dictionaries, hence the relative punishment of the other meanings :)

Anyway, I don't know if I'm allowed to vote because I'm the one who proposed the move, I'm still new to all this so I'm not sure. I hope I'm not breaking the rules!! And if the result of the vote is oppose then that's fine, it was just an idea :) DrVogel (talk) 16:15, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

No, you're already assumed to support your own proposal. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. The clear primary topic is Self. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
• Comment could anybody please address the facts that:
  • the sources given to justify that "self" is a primary topic for "selves" are dictionaries, and that's the only entry in the disambiguation page that is a dictionary word. So no wonder it appears when the others don't. And results from Google are also optimised for dictionaries
  • how do you properly justify beyond reasonable doubt that a person who types "selves" is probably looking for "self"?

Thanks! I'm only asking so I understand how all this works. DrVogel (talk) 14:32, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Selves (disambiguation)

Hi, if you have a minute, would you please be able to explain why the move discussion was closed, even though none of the people who opposed it addressed any of my 2 points? I'm still just trying to understand how things work in Wikipedia. From you closing it, it seems to me that people can oppose something but then fail to address the reasons, and then it doesn't get done. My understanding of how Wikipedia works is that it's not a democracy, but a system when the merit of rationales is weighed. But this seems to disprove it. You can reply here, I've put this on my watchlist. Thanks very much! Dr. Vogel (talk) 02:56, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Change lead sentence of: Self main article

Change from: The self is an individual person as the object of his or her own reflective consciousness.

Change to: Self is the experience of one's own knowledge and behavior.

This change is unencumbered encyclopedic prose; the original is encumbered talk...go for the consensus.Arnlodg (talk) 00:00, 15 June 2019 (UTC)Arnlodg (talk) 15:44, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

I've done some rewriting of the article. I am totally open to changing the firs sentence, if we can find a good definition? Editor2020 (talk) 02:15, 15 June 2019 (UTC)