Talk:Semen Pavlichenko

Rename

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 02:16, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

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WP:RUSSIANNAMES, WP:COMMONNAME. Russian luger. Russian name Семён in English language — Semyon. --Микола Василечко (talk) 17:53, 12 December 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 19:19, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

The only source for English usage currently attached to the article, Olympic.org, uses the current title. See also Olympic.org, International Luge Federation, ESPN, CBC, NBC, BBC, TASS (Russian News Agency).... Dekimasuよ! 18:28, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Language knowledge missing

Somehow it seems that there is a dominance of mass over expert. The Russian name Семён is always the same, no exceptions. In Russia, it is common use where the letter ё is involved to write/type only е, people very often omit the diaeresis and write or type only е because it is faster than typing a composed letter. That results in typing Семен and every Russian speaking knows it means Семён which is pronounced Semyon rather than then Semen. The fact that you find the transcription Semen all over is due to this lazy typing and the lack of knowledge of the Russian language. The same applies for example to the Russian name Ковалев which is always Ковалёв but you find the transcription Kovalev all over though the correct pronunciation is Kovalyov, which can be even recognized by the redirect here in Wikipedia. Please also refer to Semen (disambiguation) where you can see, that the Russian name is either Семён or in rare cases Симон. I strongly support the move of the page to Semyon Pavlichenko, though I noticed the above "no consensus" which is based definitely on the lack of knowledge of the Russian language. --94.139.7.19 (talk) 11:09, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

What you wrote is correct. However, for romanized names, most often people refer to the WP:COMMONNAME rule, which states, that the most common naming should be used... There is actually no unified rule of English transliteration of Russian names; e.g. in recent times a popular naming convention is replacing the "y" with "i", like "Lidiia". --User:Tomcat7 (talk) 12:14, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I am not really sure what the definition of "most common naming" looks like, to me it sounds a bit like "... millions of flies can't be wrong". I understand that not everyone can be an expert. While there is a clear rule set as in Romanization of Russian which states the latin equivalent of the letter ё should be "yo", this rule should be applied and brought to the knowledge of non-experts. It is sound-wise much closer to the Russian phonetics and easier to understand than the suggested solution of BGN/PCGN romanization of Russian. Additionally, it can be noticed that for other bearers of the name the move was made, i.e. Semyon Korsakov. Whatever the result will be, in my opinion the transcription should be handled uniformly, inconsistencies are a poor advertisement and thwart the reputation of this encyclop(a)edia. Wikipedia should set the standards that everyone will use as a reference instead of following many examples of poor journalism. BTW: The future reference for Olympic sportspeople by Bill Mallon also uses Semyon Pavlichenko. --94.139.7.19 (talk) 15:46, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

I want to make a case for the move again. The reference for olympic.org, which is Olympedia, has become public knowledge with the closing of sports-reference.com. They use Semyon Pavlichenko. --86.56.50.159 (talk) 16:56, 1 February 2021 (UTC)