Talk:Sept haï-kaïs

Hunting for originals of the poetry ...

Trying to track down the originals of some of these poems, and it looks like I'm not the only one having a hard time ... Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:32, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sept haï-kaïs/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Moisejp (talk · contribs) 14:15, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Curly Turkey, I see you tracked down most or all of the missing Japanese text. That's great! I'd be happy to review this article. I'm just currently juggling a couple of other reviews, but I'll try to start this one in the next couple of days. Cheers, Moisejp (talk) 14:15, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

No problem external links, no disambiguation links. Moisejp (talk) 03:10, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

I've gotten a bit busy in the last several days, but have started reading through the article, and plan to begin this review in earnest ASAP. Thank you for your patience. Moisejp (talk) 05:34, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Stable; no edit wars.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments. So far in my reading I have just noticed very minor points:

• The lead refers to "Stravinsky's Trois poésies de la lyrique japonaise (fr) ("Three Japanese Lyrics", 1913)" while the second paragraph of the Background section says "tentatively aside to set the Three Japanese Lyrics (fr) to music. Should this be consistent?

• N.B. Also "Stravinsky's Three Japanese Lyrics" in the Translation section.

• Another minor comment: In the image caption "Ki no Tsurayuki, 17th-century portrait by Kanō Tan'yū" would it be worthwhile to restate he was the author of the tanka used for Préface du Kokinshū? If the reader reads the current caption and then misses seeing where the name is in the main text, they might wonder where Ki no Tsurayuki fits in the story.

Will continue working my way through the article... Moisejp (talk) 06:21, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

• "The expression herbe d'oubli ("forgetting grass") is a word-for-word translation of the Japanese wasure-gusa (忘れ草),[19] the daylily Hemerocallis fulva.[20] Classical Japanese poets readily used such double meanings." In retrospect it seems obvious, and I may be dense and not very poetic, but at first I didn't understand what was meant by "Japanese poets readily used such double meanings". I got my answer in the Japanese Wikipedia ワスレグサ page, which says "和歌では、夏の季語、および悲しいこと（忘れたいこと）があった心境を表す言葉として詠まれる". Maybe for dense people like me, you could spell out that the mention of wasure-gusa was meant to emphasize/highlight that the poem talks about something sad that the narrator wants to forget. Moisejp (talk) 06:52, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
• "The four works are rigorously modern and, according to Bartoli, the Sept haï-kaïs, "these short, fine miniatures, perhaps inspired by the Stravinsky's cycle, no doubt stimulated Ravel to compose his Chansons madécasses". " I had to read this sentence a few times for it to make sense. The transition from Sept haï-kaïs to "these short, fine miniatures" then followed by a couple more clauses is not easy to follow. Once you read it a few times it does make sense, though. I'm not insisting you change it, but if you had a good idea for making it simpler, that could be an improvement.
• "To the musicologist Jean Gallois, who was one of the first to rediscover the composer,[44] the Sept haï-kaïs are "indisputedly, inarguably a masterwork: these few pages remain amongst the musician's most celebrated",[ae][26] and Delage has become "the musician of the haikis". " Should this be "musician of the haikais"? Also, is it clear enough what this rediscovery was in relation to? I think the article mentions at one point that he was out of favour for a while, but this is followed by lots of expressions of praise, so one loses track of the timeline, perhaps.

That's all my comments for the prose, I think. Moisejp (talk) 05:57, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

I believe I've dealt with all you comments. Thanks a lot for the time you've put in to this review! Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:51, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

• There are two editions of Cranston listed in Works cited, but refs #13 and 20 seem to both link to the first one. Is the second one necessary?
• I spot checked a few online refs, and the information cited seems to be accurate.
• File:Couverture Sept Haï-Kaïs.PNG is licensed by User: Flopinot2012. This user's Wikimedia Commons page [[1]] is full of notifications of problematic licensing requests. I don't know the best way to deal with this. The French article uses File:Rencontre du Genji Monogatari.PNG, but I haven't dug deep into how relevant it is.
• File:Jane Bathori 001.jpg doesn't have the alt= parameter defined.

Those are all of my comments, thanks. Moisejp (talk) 05:46, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Somehow Cranston was duplicated—I noticed it just before you commented and deleted one. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:53, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

I've removed the Foujita—it was published in 1926, and Foujita died in 1968, so it's unlikely it's PD in France, the US, or Japan. I didn't use the image from the French article either, because it seems kind of random. Added alt text. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:58, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Great, very speedy after I finished my review! (I guess you were working on some of the points at the same time.) It's bedtime here in Canada but I will check all your changes ASAP, most probably tomorrow. Cheers, Moisejp (talk) 06:10, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

It all looks good now. Result of this review: promotion to GA! Congratulations. :-) Moisejp (talk) 05:33, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Why the double plural?

Isn't haikai the plural of haiku, and isn't adding an s an error? Like blinis, pirozhkis, ... ? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:22, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

• Note: JackofOz, you accidentally placed this in the GAN review rather than on the talk page here, so I've moved it. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:39, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
• JackofOz—In answer to your question: no, haikai is not the plural of haiku. Japanese doesn't have "plural forms". See haikai. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:42, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:59, 18 February 2018 (UTC)