Talk:Serbia/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 04:06, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll be glad to take this review. Thanks in advance for your work on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 04:06, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Review

Stevan, let me begin by thanking you again for your work to improve this one. Though the national articles are some of Wikipedia's most important and most visited articles, not many editors choose to work on them. It's a big job, and I'm grateful that you're taking it on!

This article appears comprehensive, is well-organized, and provides a wealth of information to the reader. However, while it's progressing well, I think it still has some distance to go before meeting the GA criteria. My biggest concern is unsourced material in the article (most or all of which appears to predate your involvement), in particular for statistics and other figures which appear to need reliable sources. I've listed many of these below, but my list isn't necessarily complete. A secondary, lesser concern is the number of subtle opinions in the article, labeling figures as famous, notable, important, etc. without citation; these opinions would be best attributed in-text to experts to avoid original research and peacocking and to maintain neutrality. Alternatively, sentences like "The most important whatevers are..." could simply be rewritten as "Serbian whatevers include..."

A few smaller broad suggestions:

• Write out acronyms like KLA and ICTY on their first use for clarity.
• Avoid using words like "currently" or "today" per WP:REALTIME, instead using phrases like "In 2012" or "As of March 2013"; this is required for GA criterion 1b (under WP:WTA).
• The article needs some minor copyediting attention. I noted or corrected a few problems I saw in passing, but I wasn't rigorous, and I'd suggest one more readthrough.
• The lead needs attention to better summarize the article per WP:LEAD (needed for criterion 1b). Right now it appears to focus heavily on history content, while not discussing other sections like government, demographics, economy, education, and culture. It also contains a bit of info not discussed later in the article.

Since the sourcing gaps seem like they'll take some time to address, I'm going to close this review for now; I'd rather you have a chance to work on them at your leisure without a GA review hanging over you. However, once you've addressed the points below to your satisfaction (you don't have to necessarily do all, as some points are debatable), I hope you'll consider renominating this one. It's a vital article (literally, I think it's on the list of Vital Articles), and is being read by 6,000 people per day!

I'll keep this review on my watchlist and will be glad to answer any questions you have as you revise. Most of all, I hope you'll read my comments below as encouragement and not discouragement! All best, -- Khazar2 (talk) 05:35, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Detailed comments

My apologies in advance that some of these are out of order!

• "Belgrade, is among Europe's oldest cities," -- A small point, but this doesn't appear to be sourced later in the article--at least in this way. The city is very old, but "among Europe's oldest" isn't discussed.
• "Serbia is an upper- middle income economy (WB, IMF), which ranks highest in the region in terms of democracy scores (FH) and overall democratic, economic and governance transformation" -- I may be misreading, but this doesn't appear to be correct. Freedom House ranks Serbia as tied with Croatia for democracy score (both at 3.64), and Serbia scores lower than Croatia on the transformation index (7.51 to 8.25.) Or am I looking at the wrong tables in the source?
  • Also, per WP:LEAD, as a significant statement, this should also be sourced and discussed in the body text.
• "Critics of Milošević claimed that the government" -- consider rewriting "claimed" as a more neutral word like "said" or "stated" per WP:WTA
• "Serbia has 5 national parks and 22 nature reserves ... Spanning over 588 kilometers across Serbia, the Danube river is the largest source of fresh water ... The largest artificial reservoir, the Iron Gate (Đerdap), has a total area of 253 square kilometers divided by Romania and Serbia, with 163 square kilometers on the Serbian side. The largest waterfall, Jelovarnik, located in Kopaonik, is 71 meters high." -- as figures, these should probably have citations.
• The figures in the table of river lengths in Serbia should probably have citations.
• "Serbia has a comparatively old overall population (among the 10 oldest in the world), mostly due to low birth rates." -- needs citation
• " Kosovo consists of an 89% Albanian Muslim majority." -- this stat should be sourced.
• "Today, there are approximately 1,185 Jewish Serbians" -- needs citation. Also, uses of phrases like "today" should be replaced with phrases like "as of" to prevent articles from becoming outdated, per WP:REALTIME.
• "The South Stream gas pipeline project will be the largest since the 19th century railway construction through Serbia." -- as a superlative, this should probably be cited.
• "since its inception, has trained an estimated 330,000 graduates" -- can a secondary source for this statistic be found? If not, it should probably be cut.
• "Serbia has a rich tradition of contributing to the field of science and technology." -- As an opinion, this should be cited and probably attributed in-text as well.
• "Nikola Tesla was famous for" -- I'm not sure quite so much detail is needed on the list of Tesla's inventions. Also, I'm not sure [1] is a reliable source
• "Josif Pančić discovered and identified the Serbian Spruce in 1875." -- Discovering a single tree species seems like an awfully small accomplishment to be worth listing here.
• "In more than 30 years of intense scientific study, Cvijić published vast number of significant works, many of which have not lost value even today." -- this judgment requires citation
• "2.2 million tourists visited Serbia in 2007, a 15% increase compared to 2006." -- needs citation
• "has greatly affected the condition of the military, which has since suffered from a lack of funding and low enrollment rates" -- this could use a citation
• " By 2009, their number had fallen to 30,000. Military spending has declined from about 5% of the GDP in 1990." -- these figures need citation
• "Despite this, the Serbian army remains the largest in the region" -- needs citation
• "and is in the top end of European militaries" -- this source appears to be eight years old at this point--can a new one be found? Also, note that the source doesn't say Serbia has a top military, but is simply #23 worldwide in military spending as a percentage of GDP.
• "Since 2000, Serbia has attracted over $25 billion USD in foreign direct investment (FDI)" -- is it possible to provide a secondary source for this info? The webpage appears to be a site of the Serbian government.
• "Today they number only 4,064 people in Serbia." -- needs citation; also, change "today" to a fixed date per WP:REALTIME
• " Refugees and internally displaced persons (IDPs) in Serbia form between 7% and 7.5% of its population – about half a million refugees sought refuge in the country following the series of Yugoslav wars, mainly from Croatia, and to a lesser extent from Bosnia and Herzegovina and the IDPs from Kosovo, which are currently the most numerous at over 200,000." -- needs citation
• "its north leanw to the profile of Central Europe" -- I'm guessing this should be "leans"?
• "There were also many valuable poetic achievements" -- this opinion should be either cut or attributed in text
• "In the last decade of the 20th century and the first decade of the 21st century, the most popular Serbian writers were" -- can a source be added that these are more popular than any other Serbian writers--a poll, a bestseller list?
• "scientist Nikola Tesla's valuable archive" -- "Valuable" seems like a minor bit of peacocking here, and I'd suggest cutting it. If it's in the UNESCO memory of the world, obviously it's valuable.
• " it houses a collection of more than 400,000 exhibits, over 5,600 paintings and 8,400 drawings and prints" -- these numbers need citation to secondary source
• "Serbia has a well-established theatrical tradition with many theaters." -- this judgement needs a source
• "The Belgrade International Theatre Festival, founded in 1967, is one of the oldest theatre festivals in the world, and it has become one of the five most important and biggest European festivals." -- this appears to be sourced only to the Festival's website. Does a secondary source cover this information? The opinion that it is "one of the five most important" should be sourced in-text to the critic or publication making the judgement.
• "The most famous filmmaker in Serbia and worldwide is Emir Kusturica" -- as a superlative, this requires a source; the given source doesn't appear to call him "the most famous".
• "The most important actors of Serbian theater and film are" -- can you provide a source saying that these are the most important actors? I wonder if a better approach would be simply to say "Actors of Serbian theater and film include..."
• "The so-called "novokomponovana muzika" (newly composed music) can be seen as a result of the urbanization of folk music." -- this reads like original research--can a source for this interpretation be added?
• "Serbia is one of the traditional powerhouses of world basketball" -- needs citation
• "For the eighth consecutive year, KK Partizan is the reigning champion of the league, followed by rivals KK Crvena Zvezda" -- is this up-to-date? This seems like a statement that could use an "as of" clarifier.
• " Đoković, in particular, is very popular and is currently the # 1 tennis player in the ATP rankings" -- his popularity could use a source. Also, currently should be rewritten as "as of" per WP:REALTIME.
• " where they sensationally beat Germany in their first group-stage defeat since the 1986 FIFA World Cup." -- "sensationally" seems like an unneeded bit of editorializing. The "since 1986" statistic already makes it clear that this was an upset.
• " The most notable Turbo-folk artists include Ceca and Jelena Karleuša." -- needs a source that these are "the most notable"
• Bare links in the ref section (such as 128 and 167) should be fixed.
• "In July 2010, the credit rating agency Dun & Bradstreet rated Serbia's economy at DB4d, which remained the same since the last rating. There was expressed concern for the slower-than-expected recovery of the economy from the global financial crisis, along with the continuous high business risk due lowered credit capabilities, increasing company bankruptcy and generally poor economic prospects. The Agency also expressed concern for the high credit debt and large number of foreign banks in the financial sector, creating an increased risk of instability" -- this seems like a perhaps excessive amount of detail for a 2010 credit rating that was the same as the previous year's credit rating. Did this carry a particular significance, or make some unusual impact? I wonder if this paragraph might just be cut.

Thank you for review! Achieving GA status for this article is a big job as you stated but I don't want to give up so easily. Guided by your instructions I want to make this article better. Also, I want to invite other members to help. Once again thank you. (Nightwolf87 (talk) 10:09, 24 March 2013 (UTC))

Getting a collaborator or two would be a great idea since there's so much material to cover here. "More hands make light work" and all that. Best of luck, and keep me posted! -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:38, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Reader here wants to add, can you take out the part about Constantine issuing edict of tolerance? That isn't true. It was only tolerance for Christians (i.e. not Jews). It should be enough that he was first Christian emperor, if even that's relevant. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.10.240.1 (talk) 17:51, 23 April 2013 (UTC)