Talk:Serbo-Montenegrins in Albania/Archive 1

Archive 1

Serbian Orthodox Church in Albania

We need to expand the article with info about the SOC and its history in Albania.

Sources:

• 1
  • Formation of the Albanian O-Church

-Kovac09 (talk) 22:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Untitled

Time for reality check. According to the article there are about 40,000 Serbs in Albania, however I cannot find any serious article outside Wikipedia that support such claims. 40,000 Serbs in Albania is half the number of Serbs living in Kosovo, in addition to that there is nothing mention about this supposed "Serb minority in Albania" on the internet, books, authorities or else where. Confirmation please!

Albania is a internet black hole, it's hard enough finding information in English about its Albanian population, let alone a tiny rural minority. Books? have you even looked? I've seen a few documentaries about these people. They do exist. 40,000 is the least unreliable number available, since Albania is too backward to organise a proper, free census, and publish it on the internet, so we'll just have to stick with it for now. --estavisti 18:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Your so called, well documented minority? Can you give any information at all?

I can, I just don't have the time right now to watch these documentaries to take some facts from them. --estavisti 16:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Well to bad for you, therefore the victory is mine. You fale to give evidence. --83.241.187.34 10:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The victory? We're supposed to be working together to improve the article, not trying to defeat each other. --estavisti 13:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Talking about cooperation, you fale to give me what I asked for, information about the supposed well documented minority. --213.100.205.192 15:07, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

MAYBE 400,000 LIVE IN SHKODËR AND 40,000 IN TIRANA! AND SOME 4,000,000 WERE KILLED BY ENVER HOXHA--User:Getoar 19:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Getoar are you serious? --Albanau 19:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

contradiction

According to the article there are about 40,000 Serbs in Albania. Why then, can't I found any information at all to confirm this. Had there been a such large Serbian minority in Albania, then the information would with out any doubt be avaible to find. According to the article, it says that Serbs are mostly concentrated in and around the northern town of Shkodër, the twon has 90,000 inhabitans, then a large minority of about 40% (more or less) are Serbs? --Albanau 19:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Explanation

The article doesn't say that there are 40,000 Serbs in Albania, it says that some Serbian sources have claimed that there are 40,000 Serbs in Albania. Secondly, the territory of today's Albania was in the Serbian Empire at one point:

--Еstavisti 19:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Explanation, again

I appreciate that you may not be able to speak English that well, but your remarks betray a misunderstanding of the issue. Where does it say that there are 40,000 Serbs in Albania? It says some Serbian sources have claimed that there are 40,000 Serbs in Albania, which is not the same thing. --Еstavisti 09:10, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Any ref

• Progon and his son Dimitri are referred as Albanian lords [1]
• Skanderbeg's father was independent [2] and so his son.
• As for the Serbs in Albania in WW2 a source supporting that would be nice Aigest (talk) 15:04, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Dont rely on Serb website for obtaining the information.Is is very biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.210.66 (talk) 03:33, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Claims

That are unsourced will be removed. Please provide a reference for this claim according to my edit. [3]. --Sulmues ^(talk) 21:31, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I added some more "citations needed" in the article. Lots of cleanup will follow in a fortnight if no one from WP Serbia won't follow up. --Sulmues ^(talk) 21:40, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Merge

Can we merge the two articles? --Sulmues ^(talk) 23:22, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

POV article

This article is the epythomy of POV. Of course vandalism is ongoing. No sources in English is fine, but when you offer a source in Serbian, please fully cite the author and possibly quote. --Sulmues ^(talk) 17:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Serbs in Albania

Branko Kadia, Jordan Misja and Perlat Rexhepi, Antifascist activists in Northern Albania, are labeled as Serbs without giving a reliable source, besides some blogspot.com materials, written by who knows who.Majuru (talk) 14:34, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

[4] also had nothing regarding Serbs that were forced to convert to Islam in Albania.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:21, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Tendentious edits

These edits by Zoupan are 10% useful. 90% is tendentious or a rewrite of good parts (which were referenced), without any valid reason. Particularly impressive is the fact that history has been presented as if these lands belong to the Serbs since the Slavic populations started to put their feet in the Balkans in the 6th century AD. Furthermore, there are a lot of settlements that are described as Serbian by these changes, when many of them are not even in Albania, but in Kosovo or Montenegro. This is due to the fact that the source is about how in the Sandjak of Skutari there were Serbs, but those Serbs were all over the Sandjak, not only in today's Albania. That's why I proposed creation of a new article Serbs in the Sandjak of Skutari, of which some info can be useful for this article. However, for now, the title of the article is "Serbs in Albania". Let's keep the article true to its title, please. I invite Zoupan to fix his own errors, otherwise I'll do it. --Huh39291 (talk) 15:26, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:39, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Montenegrins and Serbs in Albania should be two separate articles

There should be two separate articles. We can't talk about Montenegrin and Serbian diaspora in Albania in a same article. Duklja PG (talk) 11:07, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes, those are two different subjects, and two separate articles should be created, one on ethnic Serbs of Albania, and the other on ethnic Montenegrins of Albania. Sorabino (talk) 23:20, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

How do we treat the topic when this community has felt both Serbian and Montenegrin simultaneously throughout most of its history, with differences emerging following the 1990s -and even then its members go between identities. Just something to reflect on before making big changes.Resnjari (talk) 14:57, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but ethnic Montenegrins consider themselves to be different from Serbs, and thus for every country in the region there are separate articles for Serbs of a particular country, and for ethnic Montenegrins of the same country. For example, there are separate articles for Serbs of Kosovo and ethnic Montenegrins of Kosovo, and the same principle is applied for all other countries. Therefore, the same convention should be applied in the case of Serbs of Albania and ethnic Montenegrins of Albania. Sorabino (talk) 23:35, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Ortakovski

A sentence in the article states the following: According to the 1928 population census, there were ca. 65,000 Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania, forming around 8% of Albania's total population and the largest of its minorities. Its attributed to Vladimir Ortakovski and his book "Malcinstvata na Balkanot" (Minorities in the Balkans). Now that data can be found on p 191. [5]. Another reference for that sentence is Manjola Xhaxho, who on pp. 12-13 [6] cites Ortakovski and that same book. However, there is a problem. Albania never held a census in 1928. RS states that Albania held only 2 censuses in the interwar period (Rothenbacher, p. 153 [7]; Gjonça, p. 39 [8]). The first was in 1923 and the second in 1930. As those two were the only censuses held, when was this 1928 Albanian census undertaken? I looked around for sources for this missing census to no avail. So the conclusion is, it never happened. So that means that those numbers there by Ortakovski for the 1928 census are questionable to say the least.Resnjari (talk) 19:20, 14 October 2019 (UTC)