Talk:Sergei Korolev/Archive 1

Archive 1

Voskhod crew diet

In the article there is reference about the Voskhod crew going on special diet in order to reduce their weight. While researching in order to write the greek Voskhod article, I noticed that the Voskhod rocket payload capability was well over the Voskhod 1-2 spacecraft weights (by 150-200 kg). It seems to me that most of the equipment stripped from the Vostok in order to create the Voskhod was removed in order to create space within the capsule - opinion backed by a technical article in greek which points out that the backup retro engine was added in case the extra liftoff power pushed the Voskhod to a higher orbit than planned, thus eliminating the possibility of a natural orbit decay and reentry within acceptable time. Whichever the case with the stripped-down equipment, it seems unlikely that the few kilos gained from a crew diet would make any difference - Badseed 08:46, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Ukrainian name for Korolyov

I added ukrainian spelling of his name, why was it deleted? He is considered to be one of the greatest ukrainians of 20th century, it's not a place for political games here. --Sylius 03:35, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Who knew Korolyov's last name?

[Copied from User talk:Jtir in response to this edit.] --Jtir 20:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It is a well-known fact that his name was revealed to public only after his death, so you don't really have to worry to cite this detail right now. Maybe later, when you come across the citation, you may add it. wikipedia:Attribution does not require you to cite each and every statement. `'юзырь:mikka 20:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know anything about this until I started working on the article. I don't have Harford, but will try to get a copy. Apparently his last name was not known to the cosmonauts either. The article quotes Scott and Leonov (2006), p. 53. Alexey Leonov says:

• 'He was only ever referred to by the initials of his first two names, SP, or by the mysterious title of "Chief Designer", or simply "Chief". For those on the space program there was no authority higher.'

--Jtir 20:58, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Date of Death?

The article states that it was Jan. 14, but other sources indicate the date as Jan. 12. The source I am reading also says Jan. 12, the book Two Sides of the Moon by Alexei Leonov, who went to comfort Korolyov's wife on the day of his death, so I'm pretty sure he would know. Can someone clear up this confusion? 67.83.120.179 01:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe, that either an author, a translator or you confused the day of his death with the day of his birth (January 12, 1907). January 14 as the day of his death mention such sources as Britannica, Great Soviet Encyclopedia, Biography at the website of Russian State archives, official website of the town named after him and a plenty of other sources, just ask for more ones. Cmapm 01:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I guess that answers that. Thanks. 67.83.120.179 03:11, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

James Harford's bio also gives Jan. 14, 1966. (p. 332)

Scott and Leonov (2006) reads: 'But two days after Korolev's birthday party I received a phone call from Yuri early in the morning. ... "Sergei Pavlovich has died."' (p. 143)

--Jtir 17:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Wolfe does not name Korolyov in The Right Stuff

Wolfe does not name Korolyov in The Right Stuff. I could find neither "Korolyov" nor "Korolev" here, so I have removed this sentence from the article.

• In his book The Right Stuff US novelist Tom Wolfe constantly refers to Sergey Korolyov's design as "the mighty Integral" or "the omnipotent Integral" to characterize him as being the secret mastermind of the Soviets early Space Program.

Wolfe is referring to a spaceship called the Integral in Yevgeny Zamyatin's novel We.

--Jtir 12:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Wolfe uses the name of a spaceship called the Integral in Yevgeny Zamyatin's novel We as a metaphor for the Soviet launch vehicle, the Soviet space program, or the Soviet Union. --Jtir 19:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

FWIW, I have made mention of The Right Stuff in We (novel). [1] --Jtir 20:23, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Although Wolfe never names Korolyov, he does use the epithet "the Chief Designer" several times:

• And no names; it was revealed only that the Soviet program was guided by a mysterious individual known as "the Chief Designer." (p. 55).
• ... catch up with the new generation, the new dawn, of socialist scientists, out of which had come geniuses like the Chief Designer (Builder of the Integral!) and his assistants. (p. 56)

--Jtir 17:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I've restored Wolfe here. --Jtir 12:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Picture

There's a NASA photo here, if needed.--Estrellador* 19:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

This is a nice photo, with the dog. More info here. Maybe the article would benefit from a photo gallery? Sdsds 04:42, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. AFAICT, the photo is not copyrighted, so we can use it. And NASA has written the caption: "Sergey Korolev, founder of the Soviet space program, in July 1954 with a dog that just returned to Earth after a lob to an altitude of 100 kilometers on an R-1D scientific rocket." --Jtir 21:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

The photo was already on commons, so I added it. The article does not say anything about the 1951 dog launch, so I included that info in the caption. I also moved some images around. --Jtir 19:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

potential source

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070930/ap_on_sc/sputnik_s_secrets —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.53.136 (talk) 19:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Sputnik-3 Failure

It is true that Sputnik-3's tape recorder failed. It is not true that it failed to map the radiation belts. Telemetry was received in Russia, England, Alaska, near the equator by a Russian telemetry ship "Ob", in Australia, and at the Russian station in Antarctica. From this data, Vernov published a fairly complete map of the radiation belts, comparable to Explorer-4. Van Allan's failure to give Vernov any credit was highly questionable. DonPMitchell 21:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Academician Boris Chertok recalls, that because of failure of the tape recorder, it was possible to receive telemetry data only when the satellite was seen by ground control stations, and there were not many of them. So the radiation data was scattered. At first this data was considered to be a malfunction of on-board sensors. Vernov made broader conclusions based on this incomplete data, but these conclusions were initially rejected. After Van Allen discovered radiation belts, Sputnik-3 data was analyzed again and Vernov's conclusions proved true. Nevertheless, Van Allen was the first to publish results about radiation belts in open press. Mikus (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Correct. Van Allen is credited by all as the discoverer of the radiation belts. The actual structure of the "high altitude radiation" wasn't really known until later. Generally today we say Van Allen discovered the inner belt, and Vernov was first to detect the outer belt, which he called the "polar belt" because it comes close to the earth at extreme latitudes where Sputnik-2 and -3 measured it. Sputnik-2's data was not correctly interpreted until after van Allen's publication, so nobody disputes his priority. DonPMitchell (talk) 01:13, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Did Korolyov create the Katushi

Did Korolyov create the Katushi, rockets carried around on a truck?Travb 08:09, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, he was a co-designer of the original project see Katyusha#Designers abakharev 08:30, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you so much, and a link too!Travb 19:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not believe he was involved in the development of the Katyusha. The linked article may be wrong. DonPMitchell (talk) 05:28, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Korolev or Korolyov?

What's the best spelling of the name? Night Gyr 01:23, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Korolyov is the transliteration of his Russian name, Королёв, per WP:RUS.

Korolev is the transliteration used by the Library of Congress, and adopted by James Harford for his biography of K. (Harford (1997), p. xvi)

--Jtir 17:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Korolyov. Russian ё is pronounsed like yo. --188.18.153.255 (talk) 14:45, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 08:03, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

---

Sergey Korolyov → Sergei Korolev — Although this isn't the default transliteration, NASA, and more importantly, the company which he founded use the spelling "Korolev". --Mlm42 (talk) 23:42, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

• Support as the common transliteration. 65.95.15.144 (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
• Support, although not for the reasons outlined in the nom. "Sergei Korolev" is the title one would end up after applying the criteria in WP:RUS#People.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 3, 2011; 22:02 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The Moon Race and other things...

This small section might be a little misleading if not actually wrong. For starters, the N-1 was initially designed to fly (however briefly) with the NK-15, not the later NK-33, with the former not at all being "highly efficient" at the time. To me this passage seems to suggest that the Soviet manned Lunar program was somehow on a path to success before Korolev's death which, if not demonstrably false, is misleading to say the least. Korolev's role in creating Soyuz is certainly worth mentioning, but it would also be worth mentioning that the early years of the Soyuz program were nothing short of disastrous. One other note would be crediting Korolev for the later successes (and failures) of the Soviet unmanned missions to the Moon, Mars, and Venus. While Korolev's design bureau was initially responsible for such endeavors, they were handed off entirely to the Lavochkin bureau well before Korolev's death. Therefore, it may be inappropriate to link Korolev to, say, the later (and spectacularly successful) Venera missions. Just a few thoughts.--172.190.146.120 (talk) 08:51, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Possible Belarusian ethnicity

Sergei Korolevs father was Belarusian while his mother was Ukrainian: [2] [3]

To those say that he referred to himself as Russian few times, it was not ethnicity but nationality, ethnicity is not something you choose but a genetic fact, while nationality is an identity you can choose or change. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 14:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

In Russian, "natsionalnost" is an equivalent of "ethnicity" not "nationality". He obviously meant that he was an ethnic Ukrainian, not a national/citizen of Ukraine which was not an independent country back then. Same goes for "Russian". Before you try to change his ethnicity again, please present at least reliable sources that his father was an "ethnic" Belorussian, not just a Russian born in what is now Belarus. --Garik 11 (talk) 15:37, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

But he never stated that his nationalnost is Russian in an offical document, that's the thing. He mentioned it in few article but as the reference mentions the context was when he said he identifies with the Russian culture. The fact is, his father was Belarusian and his mother was Ukrainian. His fathers father was a military man also born in Belarus, and his father's mother was a local peasent from Mogilev, so it's obvious ethnically he was half Belarusian and have Ukrainian. What they have in the English Wikipedia under ethnicity is literally that! 94.0.160.176 (talk) 15:46, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I think you are the one who should present a source stating his father was Russian. Father born in Mogilev, grandfather born in Mogilev, grandmother a local peasent from Mogilev. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 15:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Interesting. You make edits to break consensus, so you present reliable sources. Not some sites on astrology. --Garik 11 (talk) 15:49, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I gave another reference, what concensus are you talking about? You don't own the page. His father was from Mogilev, what concensus do we need to reach on that? You are the only one reverting me and I don't see you giving any sources about his father being Russian.94.0.160.176 (talk) 15:58, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

I think you understand that a person born in Mogilev is not necessarily an ethnic Belorussian, just like the one born in Kiev is not necessarily an ethnic Ukrainian. --Garik 11 (talk) 16:10, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Usually if a person was born somewhere and we don't have a reference saying he was of a different ethnicity it automatically means he was of that ethnicity. How do we know Yuri Gagarin was Russian? Because he was born in Russia and we don't have sources saying he wasn't Russian. Mila Jovovich's mother was born in Russia and she clearly stated she was of Russian ethnicity. If you bring a reference saying his father or grandfather was of Russian ethnicity we will use it and return the Russian ethnicity. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 16:15, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

How can you claim that source is unreliable: [4] are you actually serious? You need to let go of your ego and nationalism. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 16:40, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Please conduct yourself in a way described in Wikipedia:Civility. Just because other editors do not see things the same way does not mean "they have a big ego and are nationalists"; you don't know this people personally so you don't know this. Besides I have worked with Garik 11 in the past and I never had anything to complain about. If you find it difficult to work together with other people (without showing any emotions since Wikipedia is not facebook) then maybe Wikipedia is just not the place for you. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 15:37, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Deleting information about the fact someones father is from Mogilev and returning the false claim he was a Russian immigrant is not nationalist? It's not about different people thinking different things, it's about what sources say. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 16:18, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Don't judge a person till you know the man... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

You're a big fan of demagogue, aren't you? No one judges anyone. The fact is, deleting where a person's father was born doesnt make sense, it has nothing do do with points of view or judging. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 21:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Doing something you see no logic behind is not proof of "nationalism". If saying to someone "You need to let go of your ego and nationalism" is not a judgment of them I don't know what is. Maybe we should ask Milla Jovovich... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:20, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok :-/ Whatever. 94.0.160.176 (talk) 16:30, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I admitt what I wrote was not correct. His family were Russian military settlers in Belarus so Korolev was of Russian ethnicity, though it's possible that he also had Belarusian ethnicity, but it doesnt change the fact he for sure had Russian ethnicity. 79.99.144.141 (talk) 15:46, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

comments

What is a 'trader of the Second Guild'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.212.12.211 (talk) 11:16, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I cleaned up a lot of inappropriate vandalism. myeung123 06:40, 7 February 2007

Article has been expanded. Please check updates. Thanks. — RJH 15:24, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

According to some sources including Leonov EVA was the primary goal of Voskhod so i am not sure about the line of an airlock being rapidly 'added' to the craft. Korolev's original 1961 plan for a 10 manned flight Vostok programme included an EVA.

In the article more should be made of Korolev's brilliance/genius at improvising technical and engineering solutions at the last minute that perhaps contrasted the approach of the Americans. Sputnik 1 as a replacement to Sputnik 3 is already mentioned but there are other instances. This also makes his death more individually disasterous for the Soviet Moonshot as Korolev knew that the N-1 could not carry the payload for a LEO mission but based on his experience and luck to date Korolev believed he could pull it off.

I find the articles statement that "He also had to work with less advanced technology than was available in the U.S." a little idiotic, this man made technology far in advance of the USA for example the R-7 whipped the pants of its capitalist rival, not only that the first man in space mission lasted longer, was as performed before the USA.

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Time spent in the gulag

Korolev did not "serve ten years in a gulag work camp"; but was imprisoned from 1938-1944 as the article states elsewhere. Perhaps the author means to say he was sentenced to 10 years. Further, the author states, from 1939 on Korolev did not serve in a labor camp. Please correct the misstatements.

Partridgefoot (talk) 03:53, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

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General information including death of Korolev

Soviet rocket designer Boris Chertok's 4-volume memoir Rockets and People, published by NASA, 2005-2012, contains much information on Korolev. Chertok was the leading Soviet designer for control systems under Korolev, and his memoir includes numerous recollections of working with him over many years.

Volume 3, Chapter 17, Korolev’s Last Days, Death, and Funeral, includes Chertoks's recollections of these events, as well as later personal accounts from Korelev's wife and one of the surgeons involved.

The book is available online for free on NASA's Web site at http://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/rockets_people_vol3_detail.html.

173.81.161.229 (talk) 05:13, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Actually, current statement in article Cause of death: Cancer, Tumor seems rather incorrect. While Korolev had a not especially dangerous tumor, the direct cause of death was totally botched operation, and not the tumor itself. More correct would be Cause of death: Medical error. 5.179.29.86 (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

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Nationality in the summary section

Hi comrades. According to the Sergey Korolev passport his nationality is Ukrainian. https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/olik_gp/26988215/39938/39938_900.jpg The same was written in his college application.

He was a citizen of Ukrainian SSR republic.

If we say that ethnicity can't be mentioned - then we cant mention his "Russian" ethnicity in the summary section on the right and should write that he is Soviet. Otherwise we should write his nationality as per passport which was Ukrainian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Odessit1989 (talk • contribs) 20:42, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Dear User:Barsik Kato, please reply to the Talk section first before doing "Undo" of the edit. We either dont mention his ethnicity which was "Ukrainian" or we should specify his nationality, which was "Soviet"--Odessit1989 (talk) 20:26, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Official documents to prove that Korolev identified himself as a Russian.

• The questionnaire filled in by Korolev's own hand. Butyrskaya prison. June 28, 1938 - He wrote: ethnicity - Russian.
• Interrogation protocol. Butyrskaya prison June 28, 1938 - Protocol drawn up on the basis of the Korolev's answers. Said ethnicity - Russian.
• Card of the prisoner in the Office of the north-eastern camps of the NKVD with record about Korolev. June 17, 1942 - Said ethnicity - Russian.
• Korolev's Personal list of personnel registry. September 21, 1954 - Said ethnicity - Russian.

Bee808 (talk) 22:00, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Not really, the prison documents are not really relevant. Whats relevant is his passport which have "Ethnicity" stated, which is stored in Moscow in museum to this day btw. See https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/olik_gp/26988215/39938/39938_900.jpg --Odessit1989 (talk) 20:34, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Proof that he was a Ukrainian

A statement of Korol'ov during his applicaiton to Kyiv University, where he says that his nationality is "Ukrainian" https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=501481043235184&set=a.336415776408379.68609.336402879743002&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf --BezosibnyjUA (talk) 15:46, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

He might have self-identified as Ukrainian by ethnicity (Національність) at some point, yet was a Soviet national and is notable as such. Ethnicity should not be mentioned in the opening paragraph, only nationality. --Garik 11 (talk) 15:59, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Garik 11 We should keep Soviet in the summary section then, not Russian or Ukrainian --Odessit1989 (talk) 20:35, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

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