Talk:Sergei Korolev

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 January 2019 and 2 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wintersoldat.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Is it possible to hold Soviet nationality

The nature of the USSR was that officially it was a union of nominally independent republics. For example, the Ukrainian SSR was a founder member of the United Nations. This is why nationality is listed as Russian on Korolev's NKVD record. If the modern equivalent of the NKVD held Theresa May in detention, her nationality would be listed as British, not EU. The modern EU, like the former-USSR, is a union of many nations; its citizens take the nationality of one of its constituent members, not the union.-- Toddy1 (talk) 04:44, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Historically, member states of the USSR maintained their national identity. While the USSR existed, their athletes would compete as Romanian - Nadia Comăneci is a fine example from 1976, at the height of Soviet power. Soviet as a term is a government council, but governments are not nations. Giving an individual a nationality of "Soviet" would be akin to calling a German "Democratic" if they were from the (former) German Democratic Republic (DDR) or "Republican" if they were from West Germany - Federal Republic of Germany (BRD). Government types are not nations. Bear in mind that individual nation states of the USSR maintained their nationality as well, with their own flags and designations - for example, the Ukrainian SSR, the Moldavian SSR, and the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. At no time should "Soviet" be listed as a nationality. Scr★pIron^IV 14:35, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Is it possible to hold British or American nationality? Same. The Soviet Union consisted of nations just like the UK consists of countries and the US of states, but in the Olympics, for example, they competed as one country, the Soviet Union. The USSR wasn't like the EU but like the US or the UK.

So yes, Soviet was a nationality. Nationality is a matter of citizenship, and he was a citizen of the USSR. There was no Russian, Belarusian, or Ukrainian citizenship at the time.

ScrapIronIV is wrong, and the fact he uses Romania as an example only shows how little he knows of the subject. Romania was never a part of the Soviet Union, it was a separate country, and same goes for East Germany. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.169.101 (talk) 22:23, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

@213.57.169.101: I provided a citation that clearly stated that his nationality was Russian. You have not provided any citation to back up your claim.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:24, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Again, wrong. In Russian, "nationality" means ethnicity. On my birth cert. it says my nationality is Jewish, for example. Ask any Russian speaker, they could tell you that.

In Yugoslavia it was the same case, if I'm not mistaken, as it was possible to list Muslim as nationality (but not Bosnian).

He wrote "Ukrainian" on an early application, and "Russian" on a later one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.169.101 (talk) 23:07, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

The difference between states in the U.S. and Nation States in the USSR is that states in the US are not - and never were - nations. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was a collection of countries, or so their propaganda would have us believe. Voluntary nation states. Being a citizen of the USSR did not change their nationality. Try calling a Canadian or Australian "British" as a member of the commonwealth realm. And if your birth certificate specifies your nationality as "Jewish" then you are clearly translating something incorrectly. This is English Wikipedia, and we use the English meaning of "nationality" not the closest former soviet approximation of it. Oh, and I will freely admit to being wrong about Romania; yes, the Soviets controlled and occupied it, but did not ingest it. The example of Germany was for terminology, I was not claiming East Germany's was part of the USSR. Restoring nationality to the sourced entry of Russian. Scr★pIron^IV 15:48, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Again, you're talking nonsense. Just like the US, the Soviet Union appeared at the Olympics as a unified team, held a seat in the UN Security council, and granted a single passport.

So yes, the Soviet Union was a nation just like Britain and America. Being a citizen of the USSR did grant you a nationality - you were Soviet, like a British citizen is British.

The mistake you made about Romania showed how little you know of the topic, you're making it up as you go.

In Russian, "nationality" means ethnicity. Korolev referred to his ethnicity, simple as that. It's explained in one of the references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.57.169.101 (talk) 00:01, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Which reference?

P.S. I have restored the dubious tag. The matter of nationality is disputed. Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not on the opinions of editors, who see a source saying that the nationality is Russian, and say that it does not really mean that.-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:42, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Please note that three of the founder members of the United Nations (on 24 October 1945) were:

• Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic, known as Belarus since 18 September 1991.[1][2]
• Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, known as the Russian Federation since 24 December 1991.[3][4]
• Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, known as Ukraine since 23 August 1991.[5][6]

-- Toddy1 (talk) 18:45, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Exactly so; if the closest thing in Russian to nationality is ethnicity, then there is no clear correlation. Therefor we use, in English Wikipedia, the English definition. Russian is correct in the English definition. Scr★pIron^IV 12:31, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Not really, if we use English definition then Soviet is correct one and we should use it. As we established in this thread there was no Russia or Ukraine at that point of time, but only Soviet Union.--Odessit1989 (talk) 20:32, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Ukraine was not a sovereign country until the 1990s but was formally part of the Russian Empire when Korelev was born. On top he had a Russian father. That makes him Russian. 2003:EA:7F4C:CF05:6417:106C:146C:C881 (talk) 13:24, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Claiming Korelev was Ukrainian is as nonsensical as claiming e.g. that Kant was Russian just because Königsberg (present day Kaliningrad) in now located in Russia, which no one even in Russia will do, never mind what Ukrainian nationalists who try to insert their POV think 2003:EA:7F4C:CF68:38E4:94D1:B095:639 (talk) 23:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Here it is necessary to ask the person himself who he considers himself to be. But since the person himself is no longer there, it is necessary to speak as it was at the time when he was alive. And then there was the USSR and Korolev was a Soviet man. 93.81.218.164 (talk) 08:34, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

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Origin of the Queen

Wikipedia should not be a politicized platform... what are the authoritative sources that Korolev is Ukrainian? The fact that he was born on the territory of present-day Ukraine?

according to this logic, Kant is a Russian, not a German philosopher. After all, he was born on the territory of present-day Russia.

so I want to touch on such a topic that the Surname Koroleva is a Russian surname, not a Ukrainian oneso I want to touch on such a topic that the Surname Koroleva is a Russian surname, not a Ukrainian one.so I want to touch on such a topic that the Surname Koroleva is a Russian surname, not a Ukrainian one.

Ukrainian surnames end in -ok , -ec Kalimenk (talk) 11:00, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

1. Korolev' mother was Ukrainian (Cossack is not nationality as some would like to present in the article).

2. Korolev identified himself as Ukrainian in different documents, e.g. https://files.ar25.org/sites/default/files/2204012_korolov-anketa.jpg 188.95.211.239 (talk) 08:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Stop manipulations with nationality of Korolev' mother! She was Ukrainian.

1. Korolev' mother was Ukrainian (Cossack is not nationality as some would like to present in the article). It is simply embarrassing how Russian internet trolls are trying to erase any Ukrainian identity in Wikipedia. 2. Korolev identified himself as Ukrainian in different documents, e.g. https://files.ar25.org/sites/default/files/2204012_korolov-anketa.jpg 188.95.211.239 (talk) 08:06, 13 April 2023 (UTC)