Talk:SethBling

Should Minecraft maps be italicized?

Hm? Ꞷumbolo 19:12, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

They're not standalone creative works, so simple capitalization as a proper noun (no quotation marks) would be most appropriate (World 1-1, Green Hill Zone, Dust II) (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 13:22, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Interview

Hey, there's been a recent interview with Seth from MitchFlowerPower that Seth has reuploaded to YouTube. I watched the interview live, it has a bunch of useful info. It'll help fill in some gaps to help you with your WP:GAN. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgGLGDnrG78, good luck! Zoom (talk page) 18:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Zzzoom: I noticed the interview but didn't know whether I should watch it. Thank you very much! Ꞷumbolo 20:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

@Zzzoom: are there any specific gaps in the article you can point out? Thanks. wumbolo ^^^ 14:42, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Pre-GA review

Over-reliance on primary sources. If you have bountiful secondary sources discussing his work, pull the social media and primary source video links to focus on that secondary source commentary, as that dictates what the media/public finds important about his work. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 13:18, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

@Czar: Since you said his work twice, I stripped nearly all primary sources from the two career sections. These references to primary sources I've kept:

• SethBling (8 November 2017). "KFC comissioned this painting for the man who noticed that KFC only follows 11 herbs and spices on Twitter. • r/pics". Reddit. Retrieved 11 February 2018. Nah, I just consulted, they did all the coding.

• This signifies that SethBling worked only as a consultant. This is also made clear in the video which is currently not referenced in the article.

• "[45.92] SMW Credits Warp WR". Twitch. Retrieved 8 February 2018.

• SethBling is already notable for his world records so it is useful to state his record time and date.

• SethBling (28 March 2016). "SNES Code Injection – Flappy Bird in SMW". YouTube. 5 minute mark. Retrieved 18 September 2017.

• This supports an exceptional claim made by SethBling, which is attributed as such inline and quoted.

The other sections still include primary sources because they would be very short without them. wumbolo ^^^ 21:08, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

The article should be written from reliable, secondary source. So claims sourced to verizoncraft.github.io and a comment on Reddit shouldn't be seen as noteworthy for his biography unless that claim is also made in reliable, secondary sourcing. Remember that Wikipedia is written for a general audience—sections like "The program singly won gold in the 50cc Mushroom Cup and the 50cc Flower Cup, and won silver in the 50cc Star Cup" read as trivia. Focus on what a major newspaper/magazine would use when writing a profile of him. Similarly, we take our proportionality from secondary sources. If no major external source confirms his world record times or that he was the "first" to do something, those factoid likely don't fit the biography we aspire to write. czar 21:36, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

@Czar: Thank you for the feedback. I have implemented accordingly. The whole article, except the infobox and the "Early life" section, is now sourced with reliable sources.
I will remove a few non-English/unreliable sources which are leftover/clutter.  All done wumbolo ^^^ 11:13, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

@Czar: Gentside Gaming does not seem like a reliable source, however it is owned by a subsidiary of France's biggest magazine publisher, fr:Prisma Media. I believe I should delete all content that is supported by it. wumbolo ^^^ 19:09, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Ya, I don't see any hallmarks of reliability at Gentside (no masthead, EIC had no prior experience, no editorial policy, etc.) By the way, the primary source work you excised might fit at another wiki, perhaps one focused on streamers, if you want to see it used somewhere. (Wikipedia's scope is tighter than most wikis.) czar 20:18, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Dustbowl and 2Fort

The two maps have control points and capture the flag functionality, respectively, like in Team Fortress 2. Sources only say The Minecraft version of Dustbowl contains control points, like in Team Fortress 2. No source says that 2Fort has capture the flag functionality. What should be kept? Perhaps neither?

Minor: 2Fort or 2fort? Ꞷumbolo 09:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

"2Fort" per the video game reliable sources custom Google search. Generalize: "SethBling and ... recreated levels and gameplay from the FPS TF2 (spell out) within the game of Minecraft." The specifics are trivia unless you're looking to make a point about what those traits signify. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 21:40, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

 Done wumbolo ^^^ 14:42, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

External links

SethBling has written several Google documents and some Pastebin manuals, they have been cited by the sources. They are very comprehensive, but they're available through the sources themselves so I wouldn't link to any of them. That's why I would delete SethBling published the source code on Pastebin.com. and SethBling has released the source code of MariFlow. wumbolo ^^^ 11:35, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Some things SethBling said as sources

These are self-published sources and might not be appropriate at all, so I am listing them below instead of digging down the timestamp only to find everybody objecting to it. Some of these are useful, some of these are contextual. Again, I wouldn't list these if they weren't significant.

SethBling's new logo

He doesn't do Minecraft anymore Uploaded a MC video on Sep. 15, 18. Does create MC videos regularly since https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z_SElAAzSE

fails WP:TPO but appreciated strike wumbolo ^^^ 12:43, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

He began speedrunning in May 2014

He never ever played Splatoon on console found in RS and added to article

He rode a mechanical bull once and hurt himself

He attends some Jewish events

He derides himself for his username "affix" 'Bling' he came up with in high school

note to self: date = 27 feb 2018. wumbolo ^^^ 13:28, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

SethBling talks about his work at Xbox at Microsoft

1:21–1:57 in this video. wumbolo ^^^ 14:53, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

SethBling and PangeaPanga collab?

Looking at this Ars Technica article, I can't really verify this:

The honor of being the first people to edit a new level onto a stock Super Mario World cartridge went to a couple of popular Mario streamers. SethBling and PangeaPanga worked together to hardcode a tool-assisted movie file to automatically build a level as soon as TASBot took control of the game. The pair decided to recreate a castle level that was part of an exciting blind Super Mario Maker race earlier in the marathon.

wumbolo ^^^ 15:40, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Theatre Journal?

Theatre Journal Volume 67, Number 4, December 2015. Around pg. 702. wumbolo ^^^ 16:26, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Commons:Voice intro project

@Zzzoom: regarding the interview with MitchFlowerPower, is there any specific thing SethBling says that you would recommend to be recorded so that we have a recording of his voice per Commons:Voice intro project? I would say from 1:15:55 but that seems like too much advertising. wumbolo ^^^ 17:52, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@Wumbolo: There's too much advertising in that and the licensing is all standard YouTube. I'll try to find something. Zoom (talk page) 20:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

@Zzzoom: Mitch's video (it was published first) is licensed CC-BY. wumbolo ^^^ 20:41, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:SethBling/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 18:51, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

@Wumbolo: I'll review this in depth soon. My initial comments are below. epicgenius (talk) 18:51, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

General comments:

• There is a {{better source needed}} tag on this page. It should be remedied as soon as possible.

@Epicgenius: I removed the sentence because I could not find a reliable source for it. Sorry for the late reply; I have been busy irl.

@Wumbolo: It's OK, I have been busy as well. I've added some more comments below.

• This thread on the talk page suggested that primary sources are a problem. However, as of now, 15 of 87 sources are primary sources (i.e. the subject himself wrote them). Not that bad, but I'll have to look in depth.

More later. epicgenius (talk) 18:51, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Lead & Infobox:

• Any clue to this guy's real name, or is he just known as Mr. SethBling?

  His real name has not been published in any reliable sources.

• SethBling created original and derivative video games, devices and phenomena within Minecraft, without Minecraft mods - sounds weird to have "within" and "without" within two words of each other. How about this? "SethBling created original and derivative video games, devices and phenomena in Minecraft, without using Minecraft mods".

   Done

• SethBling attended YouTube-, Twitch- and Minecraft-related conferences. - How does this relate to the previous sentences in the paragraph?

  At the Minecraft conferences, SethBling hosted or co-hosted Minecraft panels. At the Twitch conference, he "showed up" according to the source. I looked at a live stream video, and he was talking at a panel about his experience with Twitch, so it might not be relevant to Minecraft. In the interview, SethBling claimed that he had "[come] back from attending VidCon with [his] network, VISO". I deleted it, as he didn't host or co-host any panel there, so it's not noteworthy. We get back to MineCon, the Minecraft conference. He hosted and co-hosted multiple panels at multiple MineCon conferences, but the only reliable source talking about SethBling at MineCon is one BBC article. The BBC article was about only one MineCon conference, so we could only write "he hosted panels at a MineCon conference", but that would not be true since he hosted panels at multiple MineCon conferences. Because of all of these reasons, I removed the whole sentence.

• SethBling holds a former world record of 42 seconds for Super Mario World and a former world record for The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. - Would this be "formerly held a world record"?

  Both return less than ten (!) Google Search hits. There must be a more popular phrasing, as I assume there exist lots of sentences on the Internet that say that someone used to hold the world record.

• He was first to do so on a home video game console in 2015. - Does this mean he was the first person in 2015 to do so? I'm guessing so, but it's a bit unclear.

  He was first to do that; he did it in 2015 for the first time. I have been thinking about removing the year in such sentences, as it seems unimportant.

  Alright. Then I think that it should be clarified, e.g. "In 2015, he was first to do so on a home video game console". Basically "In 2015" will be out of the way of the remaining sentence, so you could remove the year if you want. epicgenius (talk) 14:41, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

• SethBling injected code to play a Flappy Bird-like game within Super Mario World by hand on a stock Super Nintendo Entertainment System. He was first to perform this kind of arbitrary code execution by hand. Cooper Harasyn and SethBling created a jailbreak by hand using exploits to save a hex editor onto a read-only memory cartridge, allowing for creation of mods. This seems like a bit much detail for the lead.

  The second sentence explains how it is notable. The third sentence (which is unrelated to the first and second sentences) deserves due weight since it has got a whole paragraph in the body.

  OK then. I suppose the third unrelated sentence should have a transition, since I thought it was part of the previous two sentences. epicgenius (talk) 14:41, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Early life:

• I think you should check the first paragraph for flow. The article intersperses personal details with gaming experience. It seems like these would be better either with extra transitions, or as separate paragraphs/sentences:
  • In particular, after Minecraft is mentioned, the rest of the paragraph is about SethBling's Minecraft experience. I would definitely suggest splitting the Minecraft paragraph.
  • SethBling grew up Jewish. - You mentioned that there is very little information about SethBling's personal details. I think that if you can find sources for this, you could add it here, since this seems to be one of the very few personal details available. Plus it doesn't quite fit with the next couple sentences, which are about his gaming background.
  • His nickname is derived from his AIM screen name in high school. - This should probably be mentioned earlier on. I was wondering where his name came from.
  • SethBling earned a Bachelor of Computer Science. - This doesn't flow smoothly with either the previous or the next sentence.
• SethBling thought the game was "really cool" and played it for "around a month", after which he was "done with this game". A few months later, he bought a new computer and decided to play Minecraft again. - I am pretty sure that common phrases like "around a month" can be unquoted, or you can just say "about a month". Also, does the source say if he played Minecraft on a computer, or mobile device? Later on, the page mentions that he seldom played console.
• he did not expect to gain subscribers as a small channel with a few videos, and he created his first few videos to "better get [his] money's worth" from the screen recording utility Fraps he bought - I would rearrange these ideas, explaining first why SethBling created his initial videos, then explaining that he didn't expect to gain subscribers.
• SethBling worked as a software engineer at Microsoft for three years, working on Xbox (unrelated to video games) and four months[14] on Bing - I am confused about this sentence. Is this a list of three items, or does his time at Microsoft include his time at Bing and Xbox? I would guess the latter, but the sentence structure is weird.
• working on Xbox (unrelated to video games) [...] he had worked on Xbox SmartGlass, a mobile phone app for remote controlling an Xbox console, and the Xbox version of Internet Explorer. - I would suggest combining these ideas.
• evenings and weekends in playing Minecraft - "in" isn't needed.
• SethBling's YouTube channel came to a breakthrough when a video of his was shared by Minecraft creator Markus Persson on Twitter. - "came to a breakthrough" is vague; I would suggest "greatly increased in popularity". And instead of "a video of his was shared by Minecraft creator Markus Persson" I'd say "Minecraft creator Markus Persson shared one of..." SethBling's videos. This is just because active voice has better flow than passive voice.
• is independent since - should probably be "has been independent since"
• What is the relevance of the two quotes at the end?

@Epicgenius: I rearranged the section a bit, and I believe I've fixed the issues. wumbolo ^^^ 19:55, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Awesome. I'll make some more comments tomorrow. epicgenius (talk) 02:06, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Pinging, just in case. wumbolo ^^^ 09:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

@Wumbolo: I haven't forgotten about this review, it's just that some things came up yesterday. I'll continue reviewing below. epicgenius (talk) 13:35, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Minecraft career:

• There are three very long paragraphs. I suggest you split them up, maybe by year, or even by the individual build.
• The first paragraph includes a lot of quotes that critically acclaim SethBling's various builds. I suggest two options: (1) the critical acclamations could be combined into their own paragraph; or (2) every time you mention a different game, you simply split the paragraph.
• In 2012, SethBling and survival map maker Hypixel recreated gameplay, maps, and the eight player classes[b] from the first-person shooter (FPS) Team Fortress 2, within Minecraft. - (1) Do you know which month this occurred? (2) The extended footnote "Each player class has its own perks. Player classes can be changed during the game." is not particularly important to this article. I would suggest that you can combine it with the prose.
• In the same year, FVDisco and SethBling created Super Pirate Battle Royale, a Minecraft minigame for two teams in which the team that sinks the other team's ship using TNT wins. - I was going to ask "What do you mean by 'TNT wins'"? but then I realized that the winning team uses TNT to sink the other team. This should be reworded.
• While players have to avoid falling barrels in the original Donkey Kong, in this version, players have to avoid minecarts - The grammatical structure is inconsistent. A correct grammatical structure would look like this: "In the original Donkey Kong, players have to avoid falling barrels, but in this version, they avoid minecarts." And you could also mention that "this version" is SethBling's modification.
• SethBling's minigames have been featured on Minecraft Realms,[30] one of them is Blocks vs. Zombies - That first comma should either be a semicolon or a period.
• In 2014, SethBling recreated the sandbox video game Goat Simulator, - Comma isn't needed
• Late 2014 - (1) This should be "In late 2014".
• The third paragraph, beginning with "Late 2014, SethBling and Minecraft YouTuber Cubehamster" talks about three separate games. Two-thirds of the paragraph is about the Cubehamster collaboration. Then there's one sentence about Excel, followed by a few sentences about Splatoon Turf Wars. I found this to be abrupt.
• The Splatoon minigame is similar to the Wii U game: two teams of up to four players - Is painting the ground also the objective of the Wii U game? If so, you should say "The Splatoon minigame is similar to the Wii U game, in that two teams of up to four players...", which will indicate this similarity, and also provides a good transition point.
• Programming a lot of Minecraft command blocks - "a lot" is pretty colloquial. Maybe "many" or "myriad"?
• The interpreter is slow and slows down with continued use - "slow" is repeated within two words of the first use. You should find a synonym.
• The build features a virtual keyboard, a whiteboard which displays the code, and a programmable turtle that can mine and place blocks. - If these are different list items, you should put a semicolon instead of a comma. Semicolons delineate complex list items. Like this: "The build features a virtual keyboard; a whiteboard, which displays the code; and a programmable turtle, which can mine and place blocks."
• Later in 2016, SethBling built an emulator for the 1977 home video game console, Atari 2600, in Minecraft. - This would be a good place to split the paragraph.
• The emulator has 64 kB of functional random-access memory (RAM) - Just a side note, but geez, good thing it's only an emulator.
• While the Atari 2600 renders graphics at 60 frames per second, SethBling's emulator renders graphics at 60 frames per 4 hours on a virtual screen. - "per 4 hours" could be "every four hours". BTW, the Atari 2600 would be able to render 864,000 frames ($60*3600*4$) in 4 hours. Maybe you could put that for scale - similar to in the previous sentence where you compare instructions per second.
• SethBling created a resource pack for Minecraft Pocket Edition Alpha - This also seems to be something that needs its own paragraph.

More later. epicgenius (talk) 13:35, 27 June 2018 (UTC) @Wumbolo: I'll post my comments for the next section once you have addressed the above comments. Some of these are larger issues than others. Just ping me when you're finished. Thanks. epicgenius (talk) 15:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: I believe the above issues have been addressed. wumbolo ^^^ 16:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Great. I'll post more comments within the next day. epicgenius (talk) 16:37, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: Pinging, just in case. wumbolo ^^^ 12:22, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I've been busy with work. I'll add some more comments soon. I hope to finish reviewing the article by this week. epicgenius (talk) 12:27, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

@Wumbolo: Well, I've been caught up in more work, including starting a new job this week. However, I have spared some time over the weekend to continue the review. Here are some more comments: epicgenius (talk) 21:45, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

• Maybe the "Minecraft career" section can be broken up into subsections by year. There are 15 paragraphs, some of which are short, but it's actually more coherent than the previous version. Anyway, just a suggestion.

Super Mario career:

• In a 2013 interview with Tubefilter, SethBling said, "Until I can find another game with the type of technical flexibility that Minecraft has, it'll be a one-game channel." - This is a very abrupt transition from the previous paragraph. It seems like this has to do more with "all games outside Minecraft" and less with Super Mario itself.
• Players can use glitches to modify the game's RAM values, which in turn allows them to write a code which when executed makes the game skip directly from the first level to the credits, without players having to defeat the game's boss. - This is a confusing sentence with a lot of commas and at least 2 "which"es. Consider splitting into two sentences, and rewriting the second half of the sentences. E.g. "Players can use glitches to modify the game's RAM values, allowing them to write a code via arbitrary code execution. When executed, the code allows players to skip directly from the first level to the credits without first having to defeat the game's boss."
• Arbitrary code execution is linked as "which when executed". This should probably be shown directly in the article like in the example I wrote above.
• SethBling executed the glitch for the first time on console within twenty minutes after a Super Mario World world record was set without using arbitrary code execution. - This is also confusing. Did SethBling execute the glitch for the first time, 20 minutes after the world record was set? Or was it the first time that the glitch was executed within 20 minutes?
• Who is Cooper Harasyn? The article never explained who he was.
• by switching the game's read-only memory cartridges, which was disregarded as a valid speedrun - You should reword this as well. I'm not really sure whether switching the cartridges caused the speedrun to be invalidated, or the cartridges themselves were invalid.
• What are unlockables? Could this be explained in this article a few words? This way, people don't have to click/hover on the article link to see what it is.
• and is incentivized (fitness function) - What are the parentheses there for? I think this link can be integrated into the article without parentheses.
• complicated spacial movements - should that be "spatial"?
• MariFlow's goal is to play the game as closely as possible to the video footage provided to it - I suppose you can rewrite this, since the second half of the sentence is a bit off. E.g. "MariFlow's goal is to emulate the video footage as closely as possible during gameplay"
• "x-coordinate" can probably be linked to Cartesian coordinate system.
• had been turned into other games before - this is a little confusing. The article should probably explain that Super Mario World had been transformed, or modded, such that it looks as though you're playing something else.
• but SethBling was first to do it exclusively by hand - "was the first"
• In-game mods like support for the SNES Mouse and giving Mario telekinesis powers - "like" should be replaced with "such as", and there should be commas after "in-game mods" and "telekinesis powers".

Sorry for the delay. I will review the references next. epicgenius (talk) 21:45, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: done I think. Cooper Harasyn is a person who did what the article says he did, but I couldn't find anything else about him. There is a lot of references; that's because they're very uncomprehensive. When I was writing, I checked a couple of SethBling's videos to see whether I've covered something accurately and comprehensively enough. wumbolo ^^^ 11:26, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

@Wumbolo: Thanks. I thought there was something missing about Harasyn, but if it seems like there aren't in-depth reliable sources about him, it's fine to leave it the way it is. Hopefully, I'll be able to look at the references this week. epicgenius (talk) 12:26, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

@Wumbolo: Sorry that this has taken over a month. Here are my reference comments.

• References themselves seem to support the text they are referring to. Almost all of them are either from mainstream media, or from reputable gaming news websites (with the exception of the self-published sources which are from Reddit or YouTube).
• There are a few self-published sources, but since SethBling is very secretive, I think using these as sources is OK. If it's very hard to get secondary sources to describe Seth's personal life, and he is known for other things as well (in this case, game creations), then these primary sources should be fine. I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that two sources are Reddit comments, since it's from SethBling himself and not by another user claiming that Seth did so-and-so. Same for the YouTube videos.
• Ref #43, "Love 'Splatoon' Or 'Minecraft'? How About 'Splatoon In Minecraft'? [Video]", has "Tech Times" for the |first= and |last= entries. I am pretty sure that is incorrect.
• Copyvio detector doesn't bring up any major issues.

Once that issue with ref #43 is fixed, this would be good to go. Again, I apologize that this couldn't have been done sooner. epicgenius (talk) 17:00, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

@Epicgenius: done. Thank you very, very much for doing the review! As I had been waiting for a review for four months, this went like a breeze . wumbolo ^^^ 19:33, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

You're welcome. It was a pleasure to do the review, although getting a new job halfway through didn't really help. I have now passed the article. epicgenius (talk) 20:07, 21 July 2018 (UTC)