Talk:Seventh German Inner Africa Research Expedition/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Eddie891 (talk · contribs) 16:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Too interesting for me not to review. I'll comment shortly. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 16:28, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Comments

• Surely HIDDEK or Operation HIDDEK would be a good redirect to here?

Both added - Dumelow (talk) 06:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "The objective was to persuade Emperor Lij Iyasu" probably worth mentioning what nation they led (Ethiopia here, if I'm not mistaken)

Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• "Mahdist uprising in Sudan." perhaps you mean Anglo-Egyptian Sudan as you link to in the body

Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• "This could have threatened" do you mean the uprising, Ivasu supporting the Central Powers, or both?

I've reread the source and it only mentions Suez in relation to the uprising in Sudan. I've tried to reword this to make it clear, please let me know if it worked - Dumelow (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• "it was abandoned" is there a date here?

Added the date they left Eritrea - Dumelow (talk) 06:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "This was instead led by Friedrich Salomon Hall" the follow-up expedition, the campaigning for one, or something else? Is Hall worth a red-link

hopefully it's now clearer, I've redlinked Hall as I think I have enough to right a decent article on him - Dumelow (talk) 09:08, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• You could add a year for his ouster

Added - Dumelow (talk) 09:03, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "has been described as epic and pioneering" I'd prefer to have attribution and perhaps a quote from somebody, rather than saying in wiki-voice "epic and pioneering"

Removed and combined with following sentence - Dumelow (talk) 09:03, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "They hoped that this would "force the enemy to commit large forces in defending their colonies in the Horn of Africa, thus weakening their European front and relieving the German forces fighting in German East Africa"" not a big deal, but I always recommend having attribution for quotes

I got rid of the quote here, I didn't think it added much - Dumelow (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• "and Mohammed Abdullah Hassan" I think it's worth briefly mentioning who Hassan was, but I don't know that it's worth having "(known to some as the "Mad Mullah")"

Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• "and could inspire jihad against the British" I'm not well learned in this specific area, but perhaps you mean "a jihad"?

Done - Dumelow (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• So what exactly was the 'Mahdist uprising' they hoped for? Who would be uprising against who? Your link is to the Mahdist State, which ended in 1898-ish, so perhaps you just mean Sudanese people? If so, how would the Germans instigate it, and why were they attempting to get Ethiopian support for an uprising that hadn't happened? I'm familiar with the Dervish movement (Somali), which was an ongoing resistance movement, in a way an uprising that doesn't need any instigating. Very likely that I'm missing something here, perhaps you could clarify?

Upon rereading the source it didn't mention the Mahdists so I likely got confused here (it was a while ago that I wrote this). I've made some big changes to that paragraph that hopefully clears this up - Dumelow (talk) 16:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• I'd imagine that restoring communications as an objective could be mentioned in the lede

Done - Dumelow (talk) 06:55, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "Hall was to negotiate" It's unclear here whether you mean that his job was to negotiate this entry, or in the future he did negotiate that entry

Reworded - Dumelow (talk) 07:28, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "to his Arab name "Abdul Kerim"" worth linking to Arabic name? Is that what you mean here?

Yes, that's a good link. Added - Dumelow (talk) 07:28, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "whilst Frobenius' men used a toilet to enter the boat's sanitary tank" what now?

Indeed, the source is very interesting reading: "Frobenius and company "concealed themselves in a corner of the hold, used, apparently, for the same purpose as the 'Sanitary Tank' in a more civilised vessel, having reached this unromantic hiding place through a hole, the uses of which it is difficult to describe in polite language...". Through a crack in their shithole, the Germans even took a photo of the Desaix which remains to this day in the archives of the Frobenius Institute in Frankfurt." - Dumelow (talk) 07:28, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "cataloguing the artefacts he had collected" collected during what? Just this expedition, all previously, or other work?

The source isn't clear but I think it means from previous expeditions. I've reworded to " cataloguing artefacts from his collection" - Dumelow (talk) 09:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "He published only one paper" did he normally publish more?

I've tried to clarify this, he doesn't seem to have published many papers but did publish a lot of books on his earlier expeditions - Dumelow (talk) 09:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• "and any territory captured from the Allies" they really promised any territory, or just in Africa?

The BBC has the wording of the agreement with Ethiopia as: "Now the time has come for Ethiopia to regain the coast of the Red Sea driving the Italians home, to restore the Empire to its ancient size ... Germany commits herself to recognize any territory which Ethiopia may conquer or occupy in military action against the Allied powers as being her rightful and permanent property and part of the Ethiopian Empire after the war." so it was any territory, though I doubt the Ethiopians had any means of conquering France, for example! - Dumelow (talk) 09:03, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

• suggest "Morphology of Culture in Frankfurt in 1920, later the Frobenius Institute of anthropology" -> "Morphology of Culture (later the Frobenius Institute of anthropology) in Frankfurt in 1920" if that's correct

Done - Dumelow (talk) 09:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Fascinating article, really nice work. My first comments are above, likely some more to come. Most are subjective and probably easy for you to clear up, happy to discuss any/all. Best wishes, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:46, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

• Images look good to me
• Sources all appear to be reliable
• For source 6d all I see is "Britain, France and Italy had encouraged the coup" not "orchestrated by the Allies "

Switched to "encouraged" - Dumelow (talk) 07:26, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

• I'd recommend replacing sourced 3, 4, and 5 with one source and using {{Rp}} for page numbers

I was being a bit lazy with the citations, I've switched them all to Harvard-style referencing which avoids duplication of the bibliographic details - Dumelow (talk) 07:57, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

• All other sources I spotchecked lined up.
• Copyvio detector has 49.7% which is largely due to quotes and translations lining up, I've rephrased one bit.
• This article looks good to me: It is reasonably well written, referenced, illustrated, neutral, comprehensive, and otherwise meets the ga criteria. Passing --Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:43, 23 July 2020 (UTC)