Talk:Sezincote (settlement)

Requested move 31 October 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No Consensus to move - There appear to be concerns over whether this article should even exist. (non-admin closure) FOARP (talk) 09:38, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

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Sezincote (settlement) → Sezincote – No need for DAB per WP:UKPLACE and WP:PRECISION, base name just redirect to building in the parish and building is linked on the parish article. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:06, 31 October 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. Havelock Jones (talk) 18:13, 8 November 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 19:37, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:46, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

• • Oppose: the existing redirect is to a well-established article. I see no evidence that any "settlement" exists, over and above the house and estate covered at the existing article. The new article seems to be unnecessary duplication. --94.197.154.1 (talk) 17:27, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
    • See [1]. In any case can't the settlement/parish article serve as a WP:DABCONCEPT like Easton Neston, see Talk:Easton Neston house#Requested move 18 July 2018. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:34, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
      • The geograph.org.uk site is composed of user submissions, and is therefore an unreliable source, and in any case it doesn't show anything other than the house and its estate buildings, farms etc. --94.197.154.1 (talk) 17:41, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
        • The search showing what type of place etc isn't user generated though and it looks like the settlement was there but is is now little more than the house and a few buildings around it. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:46, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
• Move to Sezincote (parish), as that's what the article is about. The house is the primary topic. Doesn't really appear to be any sort of settlement ("village" or "hamlet" would be more appropriate if it were). -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:55, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
  • That would be more appropriate if there is to be a separate article about the parish, but is there anything notable about it to merit an article in its own right? It seems to me that a single article would suffice to cover the house, estate and parish, perhaps with the title Sezincote rather than the present Sezincote House. Looking at the website www.sezincote.co.uk it would seem that the farms and cottages are all part of the estate and let to tenants. --94.197.154.1 (talk) 12:56, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
    • But wouldn't having Sezincote House describe the house alone and Sezincote describing the estate/settlement and parish work better per WP:DABCONCEPT? If not and the consensus is that the house/estate should have the main title and the estate should be covered in the house article then I'd also support moving to Sezincote (parish) like Compton Wynyates (parish). Moving the house to Sezincote as suggested would probably also work since it seems likely that the "settlement" the OS shows is largely the house's estate. There's a deserted village called "Sezincote" so perhaps Sezincote (lost settlement) like Althorp (lost settlement) but otherwise we could just use "parish" as the DMV is not a major aspect unlike with current villages where the parish is normally a sub topic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:03, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
• Just for the record I currently oppose moving to Sezincote (parish) since as noted is is standard to have the parish combined with the settlement but if there is a consensus to have the settlement combined with the house I may change my mind. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:22, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disputed

There seems no evidence that any "settlement" exists other than the house and its estate buildings, including farms, which are covered in an existing article Sezincote House. Most of the references cited are either dead links or to gazeteer entries that merely confirm the existence of the house and estate. Latitude and longitude are claimed to 6 decimal places, which is a precision of about 11cm. No settlement can be that size. Also in the infobox an area is quoted, but there is no source to back this up in the article. I suggest this new title should just be redirected to the established article at Sezincote House. --94.197.154.1 (talk) 18:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

The coords should perhaps be trimmed, this is the precision Grid Reference Finder gives. The area in the Infobox is for the parish and from City Population. Material for the estate should perhaps be moved to this article. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:11, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

I have changed the coordinates to a more meaningful precision, and removed the figure for the area. The reference you cite is a dead link. --94.197.154.1 (talk) 10:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

I have restored the area, its for the parish and is from City Population. I would also like to dispute you're removal of "settlement" since it is an [OS settlement http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?form=basic&q=%28anything%29&location=Sez&go=Search...] the normal rule is that settlement and parish are covered in the same article and the house would be in a different one, I've never seen a house and settlement described together. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:04, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

I've restored "settlement" with the Geograph ref. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:42, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Please wait until a consensus has been reached. The Geograph reference is unreliable as it is merely a search result in a website made of user-supplied content. --94.196.55.226 (talk) 10:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

This was how it was created and how it was until you removed it, if there is no consensus we revert back to how it was. If there's no consensus we generally revert back to how it was rather than keeping the challenged change, WP:NOCON. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:53, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Please read WP:WNTRMT - the template should not be removed until the issue is resolved. --94.196.55.226 (talk) 13:13, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Sorry my bad but I have restored "settlement" which you removed when you restored the template which is a bit odd given that appears to be the only thing that is disputed. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:18, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Area

Another question: the area quoted as the area of the parish is 5.830km², according to citypopulation.de - is this a reliable source? The estate website www.sezincote.co.uk gives the area of the estate as 3500 acres, which is 14.164km². Does this mean the parish is only a small area within the estate, or is one of these sources wrong? --94.196.55.226 (talk) 20:45, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

A Vision of Britain through Time gives the area of the parish (which its boundaries seem to the the same) as 1,438 acres in 1961 which is 5.81938km² so either the estate covers a far wider area of that is wrong. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:37, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

And the ONS GSS gives the area as 582.56 hectarage so is this still in dispute? Can I remove the tag at the top of the article given otherwise it seems the only other thing being disputed is the settlement status. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:16, 23 November 2021 (UTC)