Talk:Shabbat elevator

Electricity Use

Non-ultra-Orthodox Jews consider the use of automatic electric devices legal on Shabbat as long as nobody operates any switches. Corrected the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.119.30.188 (talk) 13:51, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Capacitor vs. Resistor

"Regenerative braking is also disabled if it is normally used, shunting energy collected from downward travel, and thus the gravitational potential energy of passengers, into a capacitor network. This prevents violation of the Shabbat prohibition against doing useful work"

I believe the original statement of "into a resistor network" is correct, as the article is referring to what happens in the case the elevator being in Sabbath mode. 134.173.56.219 04:54, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Sabbath

This article is named "Sabbath elevator", but the See also link links to "… Shabbath". Is it Sabbath or Shabbath?

See Shabbat#Etymology.--FocalPoint 20:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

No Button Pushing

How does the elevator know when it needs to start moving, open it's doors, or go to a floor if there is no button pushing on the Sabbath? Does it just go up and down all day regardless of whether or not there are passengers? 198.151.12.10 (talk) 23:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, precisely. It goes up and down all day, opening and closing the doors on every single floor, regardless of whether or not there are passengers or which floors they got on or off at. -- pne (talk) 10:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Ironically enough, considering the name, paternosters would make serviceable shabbat elevators too. —Angr 07:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Card Swipe Access and Voice Activation

Is there a way one can use a swipe card to call the elevator, and voice activation to send it to another floor or is that considered "button pushing"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.125.143 (talk) 03:00, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

The offense is not in the pushing of the button, but in the closing of the electrical circuit. This happens regardless whether a card or voice activation is used, as such it is not allowed. 62.228.99.97 (talk) 16:01, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Name of the article

I believe that since the elevator is actually called Sabbath elevator, the move to Shabbat elevator is not appropriate.--FocalPoint (talk) 18:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

A check by Google indicates "129.000 for Sabbath elevator" and "168.000 for Shabbat elevator", showing that both are in use. My position is therefore changed to neutral for this move.--FocalPoint (talk) 20:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

New developments

New psak din??

• http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=40010
• http://theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/40027/UPDATE+-+More+on+Shabbos+Elevators+P'sak.html

Joe407 (talk) 04:45, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Door blockage sensors?

So how are door blockage sensors handled in Sabbath mode elevators? Most elevators going back to the 1960's use an "electric eye" light beam to detect objects in the path of the doors. Most of these make obvious relay clicking sounds when the beam is blocked. Therefore it seems that merely walking through the car door opening performs "work" in the sensor relays.

Also it appears that holding the car "blockage bumper bar" open for more passengers or slow passengers to enter also violates these arbitrary rules, since that will cause the car to stop its normal routine to accomodate the actions of the person.

So do Sabbath mode elevators just simply crush objects in the path of the closing door? Outfit it with large serrated blades and hydraulics, for a clean cutoff of anything that might cause deviation of door movement from the unattended pattern of operation? DMahalko (talk) 17:39, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

On/Off vs Variation of indicator brightness?

With regard to this idea that elevator indicator lights are not permissible because it involves "igniting a flame" in the lamp, what is the ruling for changing the brightness of an already-ignited flame? Make all the lamps glow dimly by default, and just brighten the indicator for the current floor. (More energy wasted, though..)

About the only way around these floor light-indicator rules is apparently to use a continuously lighted analog numbered dial with a mechanical pointer, with a cable running the height of the shaft and a spinning gear reduction system to move the pointer as the car moves. DMahalko (talk) 17:47, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Employing non-believers as elevator operators?

So how does it work if a building with observant Jewish occupants hires a group of Christians, Muslims, or atheists to stand by each floor entry to press the buttons, with another one in the car to press floor buttons? The sabbath rules don't apply to these heathens. If they call the elevator, hold the door open, or choose the floor that the observant Jew wants to go to, does that violate these rules?

Though perhaps such a direct violation isn't permitted? The heathens are merely hired to stand in/nearby the elevator but are not required by contract to actually do anything? Perhaps the Jewish person can't directly say what they want since that would be actually making work occur, so instead they travel in pairs and only address each other as to what they want to do rather than speaking to the heathens directly? "Gosh, Ebeneezer, I sure would like to go to floor 34." "Yes, Keziah, that would be nice."

Oh look the elevator "just happens" to arrive and goes the correct floor straightaway, without the observant Jews directly asking anyone to do it, so no work has occurred, and they are merely taking advantage of the riding opportunity as it suddenly appeared. It must be a small miracle. Sure there was some whispering between the floor button-pusher and the car button-pusher in the process, but that is not the concern of the observant Jews.

There could be shield or panel over the elevator car buttons and floor indicators, so that only the heathen sees them, and the Jewish car riders are not directly "aware" of any violations occurring. Whatever that heathen is doing behind that shield/cover in the elevator car is not the observant Jew's concern and they "don't think about it".. or at least they don't directly speak of it to anyone so as not to expose this farce to God during the Sabbath. Of course, on non-Sabbath days the shield is removed, and the observant Jew can operate the controls directly as usual. DMahalko (talk) 14:15, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

This was covered in the New York Times this week.[1] More reliably, said Rabbi Weinstock, an associate rabbi at Congregation Kehilath Jeshurun, many doormen know where the observant people live and will push the appropriate button for them. But it is not acceptable, he said, to walk up to the doormen on a Saturday morning and ask them to do so. ... “The worst thing in the world is when someone new starts” as a doorman, Rabbi Weinstock said. “Someone will say, ‘I’m going up to 27,’ and they’ll hear, ‘That’s nice.’ ” --John Nagle (talk) 05:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

energy saving possible

As an egineer, I always think of improvements. Here a proposal, which saves time and energy: If a non-observant enters the elevator and pushes floor 9, the mode of the elevator should change to normal operation, going to that floor, without stopping at all other floors. --Hans Eo (talk) 13:48, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Is somebody working on it? --Hans Eo (talk) 13:25, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Shabbat elevator. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090607022258/http://www.moit.gov.il/NR/exeres/D129ACB3-7445-4F76-8225-FC2D9BFAEB34.htm to http://www.moit.gov.il/NR/exeres/D129ACB3-7445-4F76-8225-FC2D9BFAEB34.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:35, 25 December 2017 (UTC)