Talk:Shallot

Shallot expense

Do we need to mention how expensive shallots are twice? Also, I concur re: the Tamil translation. I don't think arbitrary isolated translations serve much of a useful purpose. Astonzia (talk) 18:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Shallot names

Do we really need to know what shallots are called in Tamil? I think that is a bit much otherwise we will have every translation of shallot in every language 216.165.28.118 17:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Anti-cancer claim

Does anyone else think that "shallots are particularly high in anti-cancer compounds" is a bit speculative? The source attributed is hardly authoritative... Icarusfall 17:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes. The referenced article doesn't make such a strong claim, and I've corrected it. The page that was listed under external links was wildly speculative and filled with spelling and grammatical errors, and I've removed it. Nate (talk) 00:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Allium Ascalonicum

OED only lists the Allium Ascalonicum as a shallot. This article does not mention it at all.

The French wiki (fr:Échalote) also favors Allium Ascalonicum. A-giau 05:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

This article describes the difference between onions and shallots and defines shallots as A ascalonicum. : https://thegardeningcook.com/shallots-vs-onions/

Kortoso (talk) 00:47, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Removed unverified material

The following material was moved from the article, since it is either out of date, or needs reverification:

It is a hardy bulbous perennial, which has not been certainly found wild and is regarded by Alphonse de Candolle as probably a modification of A. cepa, dating from about the beginning of the Christian Era.

There are two varieties of shallot -- the common shallot, and the Jersey (or Russian) shallot, the latter being much larger and less pungent than the former.

WormRunner 08:28, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Cooking Tips removed from article

"In a pinch, you may substitute green onions for traditional shallots. Shallots are an excellent accompaniment to sweet potatoes." has been moved from the article to here as it seems to be pov and unreferenced opinion. 131.111.212.19 20:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Some History

Shallots are often thought to be another variety of onion, but they are actually a species of their own. They grow in clusters, where separate bulbs are attached at the base and by loose skins. The shallot has a tapered shape and a fine-textured, coppery skin, which differentiates it from onions. Shallots were first introduced to Europeans during the 12th Century. Crusaders brought them home as “valuable treasure” from the ancient Palestinian city of Ascalon.

ShallotsShallots have a mild taste that combines the flavor of a sweet onion with a touch of garlic. Try these recipes, and taste for yourself!

• http://www.magicvalleygrowers.com/shallots/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.126.236.103 (talk) 03:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

More info needed

Could someone add some descriptive info on the taste of shallots? Also, it would help to put back the substitution information for using them when cooking. Very relevant, since they're primarily a food.

Nice article for reference: Ruhlman's Elements of Cooking --JD79 (talk) 02:10, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Someone added they taste similar to a mild onion. I added a source.Tomsv 98 (talk) 16:16, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Origin in Asia

Not to be Captain Obvious but this paragraph:

Shallots probably originated in Asia, traveling from there to India and the eastern Mediterranean. The name “shallot” comes from Ashkelon, a city in Israel, where people in classical Greek times believed shallots originated.

Seems to be incorrect. India and the Eastern Mediterranean are in Asia, so I suggest this be clarified by saying where in Asia they originated ie East Asia, or more specifically which country region in East Asia, or if what is meant is that they probably originated from India, first spread from India? What is the source for this in any case? Chaozu42 (talk) 17:22, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Aus Reference

(I'm a chef, but I'm not your chef) There appears to be absolutely no confusion between shallots or scallions in the metropolitan areas. I'll be back to check on your progress. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jtdunlop (talk • contribs) 07:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a chef, but I do remember as a kid living in Newcastle, NSW, mum called scallions/spring onions shallots and shallots eschallots, but since I've moved to Melbourne I've noticed at the Queen Victoria Market they use the correct terms (spring onion & shallot respectively). I personally think it's one of those dialectic differences, like potato cake vs scallop(ed potato). Growing up in NSW I've noticed some glaring differences in language when I've lived in both Melbourne & Brisbane.Sortius (talk) 23:22, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Sortius, that's interesting. When did your mother use this terminology? I thought that it was due to Woolworths inventing new terms. Groogle (talk) 03:29, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Planting time

(Material placed at the head of this page outside a section moved here and reformatted for clarity. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:43, 29 May 2011 (UTC) )

I am a little puzzled (inter alia) by the planting and harvesting times. Are they for the southern hemisphere? Peter Seabrook’s 'Complete Vegetable Gardener (London, 1976) suggests planting from February to April. William Cobbett, in The English Gardener (London, 1833) suggests March. Autumn planting—as with garlic—might well work, but I don’t see how they could be ready for harvesting in February/March. - Ian Spackman 00:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, now I see the problem: ‘the principal crop should not be harvested earlier than February’ should be ‘the principal crop should not be planted earlier than February’. Fixed. - Ian Spackman 02:45, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually as a gardener in Northern Maine, it is routine to plant them in September and harvest them in early July. You retain and dry a portion of them for the next planting. Just like garlic, they are a fall planting crop that lives though the winter.

I, too, have aways been advised (in the Western part of the United States, Northern California and Oregon) to plant shallots in the fall, and in fact I can rarely obtain the bulbs in the spring. I agree that "should not be harvested earlier than February" was wrong, but I think that spring, as opposed to autumn, planting is also incorrect for many areas. RamblingChicken (talk) 01:03, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

It seems that we need referenced sources which explain different planting times in different regions. I've rewritten the text to be less Northern Hemisphere biased, and referenced the early spring time to Peter Seabrook's book as per Ian Spackman. I would be useful if a US gardener could add a reference for autumn planting. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:43, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I've added a reference, though I was surprised to find the situation not altogether clear-cut. The primary "source" for autumn planting is the catalog or website of every single seed company (that I can find) that will ship the bulbs to my area. The "book reference" that I found just said that they can be planted in fall in "long season areas", and I've duplicated that phrasing, though I find the logic a bit puzzling - in a long season area, surely spring planting would be soon enough? Do they mean mild winter areas? That would make sense, given that all sources seem to agree that planting them as early as possible is desirable. Or - oh! In a long season area, I suppose the bulbs could get some growth in the fall before they shut down with the cold, and therefore won't just rot in the wet ground? Yes, I'm just confused. RamblingChicken (talk) 17:31, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

I've never tried growing shallots, but the same kind of advice is given here in England about garlic. You get better & earlier crops if they will survive the winter. It's not clear from my books exactly what conditions this requires: too cold is bad but so is too wet. What "long season" means I'm not sure, but I have relatives in Ottawa, Canada, and they definitely have a "short season" - you wouldn't plant anything much in fall there! So perhaps it does mean "mild winter areas". Peter coxhead (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Ashkelon

This is an article about shallots, not about either the Israel/Palestine conflict or geography. When it was a Philistine city, it was neither Israeli nor Palestinian, so why mention either? Peter coxhead (talk) 19:53, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

True Shallot?

"The term shallot is further used for the French gray shallot or griselle (Allium oschaninii), a species which has been considered to be the "true shallot" by many;" I cannot find a source for that. I changed it to, "The term shallot is further used for the French gray shallot or griselle (Allium oschaninii), a species which is referred to as "true shallot";" and added a source.Tomsv 98 (talk) 22:01, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Europe and North America

I removed, "Shallots are uncommon in North America; however, their popularity varies in parts of USA, particularly northern areas of the country[clarification needed]." I'm not sure what it is trying to say, but they are available at Walmart, UPC 0004525511111, in Oshkosh, WI. Tomsv 98 (talk) 18:09, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Names for shallots

As mentioned in 2007 above, I think that the different names for shallots in various languages and countries should be removed. I am not opposed to giving a name in another country or language, provided that there is a reason for doing so, such as the plant originally coming from that country or area. However, I do not think that the names for shallots should be given in every country or language, even if they are important in that country's cooking, but I am not opposed to giving the different names when it is for an English-speaking country, like the U.S., U.K., Commonwealth countries and India, which has a large number of English speakers. If there are no objections, I will remove the content, if I remember. If someone else comes along, and I have not removed it despite a lack of objections and sufficient time passing, feel free to remove it yourself. -- Kjkolb (talk) 07:03, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree with this proposal. Peter coxhead (talk) 02:04, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

The scientific classification......

need to be addressed in more detail as the example of Apple — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.105.161 (talk) 00:21, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

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What is the synonym?

"The shallot was formerly classified as a separate species, A. ascalonicum, a name now considered a synonym of the currently accepted name" - I'm not clear on what this means. "A. ascalonicum" is a synonym for "shallot"? 73.222.96.76 (talk) 03:14, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

scallion

The scallion article says that shallots and scallions are closely related, yet the shallot article does not mention scallions among the close relatives of the shallot. 73.222.96.76 (talk) 03:15, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

First photo incorrect

I believe the picture at the beginning of the article is actually a red onion. Shallots are smaller and are more oblong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.83.175.21 (talk) 02:36, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I agree that this isn't what I know as a shallot. However, it also isn't the vegetable that I know as a red onion.

As the lead sentence says, the shallot is a variety of the species of which the details behind the graphic at commons:File:Shallots-Whole.jpg claim it to be a photo. (Confusingly, the the title of the graphic says "shallot", the description says "whole bulb garlic".) So it's possible that the species is identified correctly but it isn't the variety known as "shallot". Alternatively, it may not be the variety you and I know as "shallot", but maybe there are others who call this a shallot as well. So let's wait for input from others. Largoplazo (talk) 11:56, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

The paragraph beginning "In most Indian cuisines, the distinction between onions and shallots is weak..." explains the issue. However, this article should be about a particular group of cultivars that are distinct from onions, red or white. Shallots are a different shape and have a different flavour. There's a good discussion here, although it doesn't really meet the requirements for a reliable source. The article needs a thorough overhaul. Peter coxhead (talk) 18:56, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Useful Link

Based off of similar wording it looks like sections of this were pulled from https://www.factmr.com/report/293/fresh-onions-and-shallots-market but it's behind a paywall so I can't confirm. Dropping it in here for later reference Mariaramgon (talk) 12:32, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Added source for the skin color of shallots, warning about plagiarism

Hello! I have added a source for "The skin colour of shallots can vary from golden brown to gray to rose red, and their off-white flesh is usually tinged with green or magenta.", which was previously tagged as "citation needed". However, I would like to note that I have discovered that doing a quick search for the skin color of shallots reveals that the sentence was almost word-for-word plagiarized by the user who added it - the original being "The outer skin of shallots can vary from golden brown to gray to rose red, and their off-white flesh is usually tinged with green or magenta." (from https://cals.arizona.edu/fps/sites/cals.arizona.edu.fps/files/cotw/Shallot.pdf). I'm fairly new to Wikipedia, so I'm not sure if there is a template warning message I can put in the article about plagiarism, but regardless, this information needs to be rewritten from scratch. See: Wikipedia:Plagiarism#Forms_of_plagiarism. Let me know if I'm missing anything! ~the.one.and.the.only~ (talk) 23:41, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Nutrients within a Shallot

When reading of other subterranean bulb foods, a lot of nutrient information is available on a quick search. Out of curiosity, shallots were sought. Little complete information was found.

{I also am surprised Wikipedia currently does not have this, and am supposing I am overdue for donation and/or providing some input on a topic [I am] well versed in. Thank for the info!} 2600:1012:B187:316D:AC6E:E8FB:501:F559 (talk) 03:38, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

The nutrition information was present within the USDA nutrient table. To facilitate understanding, I added a nutrition section to discuss the composition and few nutrients having significant content. Zefr (talk) 04:28, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Why "botanical variety (a cultivar)"?

Which one is it? "Botanical variety" and "cultivar" aren't synonyms, they are terms specifically coined to distinguish the two concepts. --Grey Clownfish (talk) 04:22, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Definition unclear

The currently provided definition does not clearly explain what a shallot is. The term "cultivar group" is jargon, and the hyperlink to the wikipedia article on "cultivar group" does not elucidate the jargon, and suggests that the term "cultivar group" is no longer used.

Throughout my life the word "shallot" has referred to what is described as "scallion" on wikipedia. If you look at the article for "scallion" on wikipedia, you will see there is great dispute and disagreement about the the name of the subject matter.

In short, the referent of the word "shallot" is less clear than this article makes out, and in fact it would appear that throughout the English speaking world, the word "shallot" does not have a single referent. Furthermore, most of this article speaks of the "shallot" as having a single referent, but that referent is never identified. 194.193.211.171 (talk) 14:23, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

It would be easier to respond directly to you about the terminology here in comparison with yours if you'd said where you're from.

All the illustrations in the article are of the items that I, in the U.S., have always known and exclusively seen labelled as "shallots", which, based on an arbitrary source from each country, is also what they're known in the UK[1] and Australia[2]. Likewise, the sources ([3] for the BBC scallion article) match my lifetime understanding of what a scallion/green onion/spring onion is (though some make a distinction between what's called "scallion" versus what's called "green onion"). The only overlap is in the Australian source, which gives "green shallot" as an alternative name for scallions. The Australian source also observes that naming varies among the country's states. Largoplazo (talk) 16:44, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Reference Two Internet Archive Link Doesn't Work

The link for the citation, "...Fritsch, R. M.; N. Friesen (2002). "Chapter 1: Evolution, Domestication, and Taxonomy". In H. D. Rabinowitch and L. Currah (ed.). Allium Crop Science: Recent Advances. Wallingford, UK: CABI Publishing...", which goes to https://archive.org/details/alliumcropscienc00curr doesn't work because the page has been taken down 99.238.50.84 (talk) 20:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)