Talk:Shapes of Things/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 11:30, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Happy to review this.

Lead

• "in late 1965 and early 1966" - this is confusing. I think it would be simpler to say when the song was released in the lead (ie: February 1966), and go in to depth about the recording in the body

Agree, reworded. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• The Richie Unterberger quotation needs to be duplicated in the body

Added to Recognition. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "The song became a feature of live Yardbirds performances" - the problem with the body is that although it indirectly mentions this in terms of other live releases of the song, there's no obvious corresponding part of the body that explains how the song fit into the group's live performances, particularly how it coped with personnel changes.

I'm going to rewrite the lead. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Changed and expanded lead. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I've done a bit of copyediting on this. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:02, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Writing and recording

• "Bassist/music director Paul Samwell-Smith" - is he normally known as a "music director"? He went on to become a producer, but I don't think his role was as significant as it later became.

He is listed as "Musical Director" on the first two American LPs and as a producer on Yardbirds/Over Under Sideways Down. Group biographies usually point out his role as a major one. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

• "are usually credited with writing the song." - don't need "usually", unless the writing credit has been challenged in court (eg: per A Whiter Shade of Pale) that is what it is

Changed and added footnote "On Truth, Samwell-Smith is the only writer listed; on Beckology, Chris Dreja is included along with Relf, McCarty, and Samwell-Smith." —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• The block quotation would sit better as prose, and trimmed down a bit to avoid close paraphrasing

Agree, paraphrased (point about Beck is the most important one). —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "Keith Relf" in the last sentence should just be "Relf" per WP:LASTNAME

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "multi-tracking" : link to multitrack recording

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Lyrics and instrumentation

• ""Shapes of Things" marked the beginning of the Yardbirds recording only original songs, until the departure of Jeff Beck at the end of 1966" - does this imply they went back to recording covers after Beck's departure? I think this sentence is a bit confusing - it might be simpler to say ""Shapes of Things" was the first single that had been written by band members"

With Page, they resumed recording covers. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

• "Their five previous record chart hits" can simply be expressed as "Previous singles"

Changed and added "A-sides" (they wrote the Bs). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Removed (not important). —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

• "a Brian and Mike Hugg composition" - who is Brian?

Added Hugg (they're brothers). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

As above. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

• "composition, which the Yardbirds recorded in September 1965 for their second American album Having a Rave Up." => "composition on their second US album, Having a Rave Up

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

As above. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

• The song lyrics should be removed, as they don't really add anything to the prose, and are technically a copyright violation. However, the Metrolyrics reference should still be retained as an external link

Trimmed lyrics, but retained two pertinent lines to illustrate the ambiguity. This qualifies as fair use under copyright law (see WP:SONG#LYRICS). —Ojorojo (talk) 18:06, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

• "known as a "rave-up" - quotation needs a source

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:06, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

• "Drummer Jim McCarty established a marching-style beat with a walking bass-line" - this section is difficult to parse, particularly if you don't know anything about the Yardbirds. I think this section goes into a bit too much detail. If the sources talk about the guitar solo and the "psychedelic" style the most, that's what the article should give due weight to.

Rewrote/rearranged. Changed focus to guitar and expanded. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Releases and chart performance

• "Shapes of Things" was previewed in 12 February 1966 issue of The Beat, which commented" - How about "The first mention of the single was in February 1966, when The Beat said"

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "on 25 February 1966" - don't need "1966", the earlier prose makes it obvious which year we're talking about (same applies further down)

Removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "In the UK, it was paired with" - may be simpler to say "the B-side was" rather than "paired with"

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "peaked at number eleven" - numbers are being used elsewhere in this section, use "11". The footnote on this sentence is unsourced and it doesn't seem obvious how it relates to this song

Changed; dropped. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "The song had its first album release in the UK in 1966 on the various artists compilation Go, Vol. 1 (16 September 1966 Columbia SX 6062)" - "The song's first appearance on an album was on Go, Vol. 1 in September 1966"

Changed, but unlinked. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "In the US in 1967" - don't need "in 1967"

Removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "which was their highest charting" - don't need "which was"

Removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "Also in 1971" - don't need "Also" - the previous paragraph was talking about general reissues

Removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "with the Jimmy Page line-up" - with Jimmy Page on guitar

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "Relf prefaced the song by announcing" - "Relf announced the song saying". The quotation following it is unsourced

Changed and added source. —Ojorojo (talk)

• "It is likely that..." - this sentence, and its footnote, look like unsourced original research and should be removed

Removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "bootleg" can wikilink to bootleg recording

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "Several live versions have appeared on various" - this sentence, and its footnotes, are unsourced

Added refs, removed footnotes. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:06, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Jeff Beck Group version

• "Jeff Beck reworked" - "Beck re-recorded"

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• "its aggressive, heavily-amplified sound, set the tone for the album" - set the tone according to whom?

Added sources. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Recognition and influence

• What position is the song on the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame list

It's an unranked list. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• The #61 position on Q Magazine's list is unsourced

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:06, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

• "It was also noted that "Shapes of Things" - "it was noted" is a word to watch, and Ian McDonald's Revolution in the Head (my go to Beatles source) says nothing about the guitar solo being an influence on Taxman. I think this sentence should probably go.

It's gone (more likely this would come from a Beck biographer rather than the Beatles, but I would prefer to hear it from someone else too). —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Found another source (newer edition?) and re-added/expanded. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

• The sentence referring to Led Zeppelin is too specific. It would simpler to say that the group occasionally played a portion of it live in concert

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

• The AllMusic source citing list of other artists covering the song should go at the end of the sentence. Also, this section could be fleshed out a little - the Black Crowes with Jimmy Page version is probably significant given Page's association with the Yardbirds.

Added a bit about Live at the Greek. Not much written about the others, except albums, charts, etc. Kept it simple for the "covers" fans/editors. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Images

• I'm not sure we need the record label image - it's non free and doesn't really give us any more information than what we can read in the prose. I would use the European picture sleeve cover instead.

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Summary

• There's a bit of work to do here to meet the GA criteria, but nothing insurmountable, so I'll put it on hold for a week pending improvements. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:30, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this on. I plan to work on it a bit at a time, but should have it finished within your timeframe. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Ritchie333, I've shifted the focus a bit and moved some things around. I think it's ready for another look. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:57, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Okay, that looks good. I'll have a read through everything and see if there's anything else that needs to be done, then we'll be good to go. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:02, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Additional comments

• The reference "McCarty 2010" does not exist in the reference list and is missing a page number
• The reference "di Perna 2012" has the same problem as above
• The reference "Unterberger Biography" does not exist
• The reference "Unterberger Birdland" does not exist
• The reference "Eder Truth" does not exist
• The reference "Erlewine" does not exist

To test references, hover your mouse over the footnote and you should get a link. Click on this link and you will be directed to the relevant entry in the "Notes" or "References" section. The above references do not work this way. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:21, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

These are online sources, so I changed the ref format. Also, I think it is important to include that Beck's use of feedback is musical, and not just an effect (like Red Crayola or Hendrix's "EXP"). And that the lyrics are ambiguous (the reader can decide). BTW, these are direct quotes, not paraphrased. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:06, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

The problem is that if a quotation is too long, it can be perceived as being a copyright violation, although how much is "too long" is open to question and interpretation. Anyway, I've done a few more fixes, and I can't think of anything else left to cover, so I can now pass the article. Good work. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:32, 11 August 2014 (UTC)