Talk:Shaun Bailey, Baron Bailey of Paddington
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Comment
editSorry. I nominated this article for deletion but have totally forgotten my password. This is a page about a candidate for elected office who has no other notability. There is clear precedent that candidates for office are not sufficiently notable unless there is some other claim to notability. I don't think any other claim is sufficiently asserted here - it really just seems to be a vanity page. 86.144.83.215 (talk) 00:44, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- There appeared to be copyvio from his personal website, so I have done a partial tidy up, quoting third party references. Snowman (talk) 15:26, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Promotional tone
editThis edit by Widget365 (talk · contribs) has some good links, but looks like it's way too promotional. Even before that edit, it was looking promotional. Tagging as {{news release}} until I get around to looking properly. --h2g2bob (talk) 23:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Yep, still way too promotional, not very wikified, (inline links, 'publications' are mainly individual guest columns for newspapers), poor writing and grammar. Some of the details give a distinct flavour of self-editing. I will make a start. Centrepull (talk) 05:14, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
- The promotional tone is back. The external links added in this edit are all promotional. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.226.204 (talk) 21:02, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Battle for Hammersmith: Shaun Bailey, Andy Slaughter and the great Wikipedia mystery
editIt appears that a Shaun Bailey shill has been editing this page for propaganda purposes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 09:41, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Removal of information sourced from the guardian website
editRecent edits have removed information sourced from Dave Hill's London Blog[1] on guardian.co.uk. Dave Hill is a professional journalist and as I understand it the blog is under Guardian editorial control, and so I believe is a reliable source as per Wikipedia definition: Identifying_reliable_sources. As such I believe that this information should be reinstated. Dastra (talk) 12:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
References
Information pre 2006
editMy Generation was setup on 24th February 2006, and was selected as Conservative PPC for Hammersmith on 29th March 2007 - is there any information what Shaun did between leaving university and setting up the charity ?
Crystal
editThe ban on predictions of the future is being broken in a big way here. Bailey is possible future Mayor of London, we are told.
External links modified
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Racism and Islamophobia
editRecent edits have removed information about racist tweets and Islamophobic tweets shared by Shaun Bailey. There are numerous references for this, e.g. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/shaun-bailey-islamophobia-sadiq-khan-london-mayor-tory-party-conservatives-a8558521.html and http://uk.businessinsider.com/shaun-bailey-conservative-candidate-2020-london-mayor-race-sadiq-khan-2018-9
This edit was performed by a Conservative Party supporter. Removing the sentence about racist tweets appears to go against the BLP guidance about balance. In particular, something isn't unbalanced simply because it's unfavourable to the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.226.204 (talk) 20:57, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Islamophobic and hinduphobic comments
editThere is a section for this on the page, so I don't see why these comments are required in the lead paragraph. I call for them to be removed - if any objections, please comment your reasoning below before the discussion is closed and this is deemed consensual position. Susiloto (talk) 10:22, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
- The lede is supposed to summarise the article, the fact that there is a whole section on them supports the case for them being in the lede. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 12:54, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
- It's absolutely appropriate to include material about this in the lead. So much of the coverage of Bailey covers these comments, and especially coverage of Bailey in which he's the main subject. Ralbegen (talk) 15:03, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
I now move on to ask whether accusations of islamophobia and hindusphobia are even justified at all, rather than a callous diatribe on this man. His prior comments on Islam and Hinduism are certainly controversial, but what I object over is the use of the words 'islamophobia' and 'hindusphobia' - they all really use one fundamental source (additional sources seem to succeed this one in date so probably based on this source still - https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/anti-hindu-muslim-views-return-to-haunt-london-mayor-candidate-shaun-bailey/story-woCY6o4owDF4Yp9lnOxNBM.html - is this really enough for such lengthy accusations? This article refers to his criticism of privileging of Diwali and Eid over Christmas. But that is not expressing 'hatred of Hindus or Muslims' as these terms would constitute. If anuything, it is a mere criticism of the educational establishment and processes.
Furthermore, another source refers to his shariong of an islamophobic tweet. `But was this really islamophobia? It seems to me more just an accident which certainly does not warrant such a scathing attack on him.
These sections are also very biased and one-sided against the subject of the article, the man, Sean Bailey. Susiloto (talk) 12:13, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
The sentence: "He claimed that South Asians "bring their culture, their country and any problems they might have, with them" and that this was not a problem within the black community "because we’ve shared a religion and in many cases a language" is misleading and implies that south asians bringing "their culture, their country and any problems they might have, with them" is not a problem wth the black community when what he's really saying is that the black community doesn't have that problem. I've tried to edit but it gets reverted. 71.7.208.7 (talk) 01:55, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
- The material about accusations of Islamophobia and hinduphobia are a summary of reliable source coverage. They include long quotes of Bailey's own words and responses from Bailey's spokesperson and James Cleverly. The Hindustan Times article uses the phrase "anti-Hindu" rather than "Hinduphobic", so I'd be happy to see the word "Hinduphobia" replaced with "anti-Hindu views" and "Hinduphobic" with "anti-Hindu". I don't think it's really possible to cast into doubt that accusations have been made, and the accusations have received plenty of coverage—not just limited to the sources currently used in the article—so I don't see any case to remove them from the page. Ralbegen (talk) 12:59, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
- Hindustan Times is, according to its own Wiki page, it was "founded [...] with roots in the Indian independence movement of the period ("Hindustan" being a historical name for India)." so it is not reliable for things pertaining to India/Hinduism/the east - it is obviously going to be biased in favour of these attributes. This is ven if it is generally a reliable source for WIKI on othger topics (for instance, science). Susiloto (talk) 08:17, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
- I don't think "Indian newspapers aren't reliable sources on subjects relating to Hinduism" is a convincing argument. Ralbegen (talk) 11:10, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
- Hindustan Times is, according to its own Wiki page, it was "founded [...] with roots in the Indian independence movement of the period ("Hindustan" being a historical name for India)." so it is not reliable for things pertaining to India/Hinduism/the east - it is obviously going to be biased in favour of these attributes. This is ven if it is generally a reliable source for WIKI on othger topics (for instance, science). Susiloto (talk) 08:17, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
editThere is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Shaun Bailey (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:49, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
Father a lorry driver?
editIt says that he was brought up by his mother and family because his father was a lorry driver. He then met his father and father's second family when he 13. Who wrote this drivel. It should be deleted. Rustygecko (talk) 08:41, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
COI Edit Requests
editPart of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
As Bailey's constituent and a life-long member of the Conservative Party, I would like to resolve a number of inaccuracies and what is most likely intentional disinformation that is connected to his Wikipedia page:
Edit request
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"Kensington Labour MP Emma Dent Coad provoked controversy after a blog she wrote about Bailey in 2010, before her election to the House of Commons, which referred to him as a "token ghetto boy".[1] Dent Coad quoted former neighbours describing Bailey as a "free-loading scumbag" and "the most hated man in North Kensington". She suggested Bailey had been "used" by the Conservatives and that his "public school buddies will drop him like a hot potato" if he failed to get elected.[2] Bailey subsequently called the comments "racist" and "hate-filled".[3] Dent Coad later apologised for "any offence caused" and said that she was just repeating what others had said.[4]"
"After being selected as the Conservative candidate for London Mayor, Bailey was a target of racist abuse on Twitter by iself-declared Labour supporters. A Momentum-supporting Labour member tweeted: “Shaun Bailey is the biggest Uncle Tom to walk the planet’ and a ‘vile disgusting Uncle Tom’. Bailey was also called “a lying coconut’ in another tweet."[5] Bailey revealed the abuse to the Evening Standard, commenting: “We cannot have a contest that is plagued by racial abuse, mud-slinging and identity politics”. [6] Bailey also revealed that he received a racist letter, which read: “N****r – you are not welcome around Twickenham.” It was sent to the Richmond Conservative Association office in south-west London. Responding to these racist statements, Bailey said: “Racist abuse, from the left or right, is not right. We should not have to tolerate these personal attacks that poison the well of public debate.” [7] He has also called on the Conservative Party to have a “proper conversation” about the allegations of Islamophobia. He wrote in the Guardian: “There is simply too much hate floating around online these days and too much of it is appearing (intentionally or not) under our banner. We must root it out, now.” [8]
"Bailey has worked as a researcher for the Centre for Policy Studies, before standing in the Hammersmith constituency as a Conservative at the 2010 general election, and also served as the Prime Minister's special adviser on youth and crime from 2010 to 2013.[9] At the 2017 general election, he contested Lewisham West and Penge. In 2018, Bailey was selected as the Conservative candidate in the 2021 London mayoral election (which were, at the time, scheduled for 2020, but later postponed until 2021)."
"The Guardian revealed alleged pejorative edits were made to the Wikipedia pages of Bailey's opponent Andy Slaughter during the campaign.[11]"
"In October 2015, Bailey was selected as the third Conservative candidate on the London Assembly top-up list, after Kemi Badenoch and Andrew Boff.[14] Following the loss of the Merton and Wandsworth constituency seat, the Conservative Party was allocated three top-up seats, and he was elected. He is currently deputy leader of the Conservative Greater London Authority Group.[15]"
"Bailey’s policy priorities include a focus on tackling crime, where he says he will use his experience as a youth worker to tackle gangs and violent crime. Bailey has said he wants to see a city ‘where criminals are under pressure, not communities.’ Crime is set to be a major issue at the election.[16] Bailey is also campaigning on housing, transport and protecting the environment. He has also been critical of financial waste at City Hall, where staffing costs at the Mayor’s Office have risen by 82% under Khan.[17] Bailey has pledged to cut waste and use the money to hire more police officers. [18] Bailey has also campaigned against Mayor Khan’s decision to increase the congestion charge to £15 and extend its hours. He is also campaigning for key workers to be excluded. Under current proposals key workers like police officers, teachers, fire fighters and transport workers will have to pay the charge. [19]"
"Bailey has expressed concerns about liberalism, saying "the more liberal we have been, the more our communities have suffered. This liberalism is destroying our young people. I hate to think how, with their levels of violence, they will be as parents.[21]".
"In a 2005 policy pamphlet, Bailey, who was a youth worker at the time, argued from his personal experience that poor, working class kids risked being drawn into a life of crime without rules or structure in their lives. He was subsequently criticized by Labour Party opponents for these comments. A spokesman for his campaign responded: "They are the blunt words of a man who grew up in tough circumstances trying to make sense of his world, and trying to get the people in his community to accept their responsibility to do better. They are the words of a man who hasn’t figured it all out, but a man who wants to contribute to society by offering his experiences, however raw they might seem now."[23]".
"Bailey has been criticized by Labour Party opponents for an interview he gave in 2008 where he observed that children are 'using abortion as contraception' and the time limit should be reduced from 24 weeks to 22 weeks. However, Bailey has also declared that he is pro-choice, saying in the same interview: "I'm pro-choice, though and wouldn't choose to tell a woman what she couldn't do with her body."[24]".
"Bailey has drawn criticism by his political opponents for retweeting a post which referred to London Mayor Sadiq Khan as the "mad mullah of Londonistan". The tweet, which has since been deleted, was shared by Bailey in 2017. When questioned about the matter by The Independent, Bailey’s spokesperson insisted that there is "no way" he would have seen the tweet’s potentially Islamophobic caption, as he would have needed to click on it to see the full text.[26]"
"In October 2018, Bailey was accused by his political opponents of Islamophobia and Hinduphobia over the contents of a pamphlet entitled No Man’s Land, written for the Centre for Policy Studies in 2005. In it, Bailey argued that celebrating Muslim and Hindu festivals "[robs] Britain of its community" and risked turning the country into a "crime riddled cesspool" as a result. He claimed that South Asians "bring their culture, their country and any problems they might have, with them" but that this was not a problem within the black community "because we’ve shared a religion and in many cases a language" [31]. In the pamphlet, Bailey had confused the Hindu religion and the Hindi language: "You don’t know what to do. You bring your children to school and they learn far more about Diwali than Christmas. I speak to the people who are from Brent and they’ve been having Muslim and Hindi (sic) days off.""
"The comments were criticized by the Hindu Council of the United Kingdom who expressed "disappointment at the misrepresentation of our faith" by Bailey.[33]"
Toryspoon57 (talk) 21:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
References
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— Preceding unsigned comment added by Toryspoon57 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
- @Toryspoon57: You may want to add a Template:UserboxCOI to your user page. Are you being paid by Bailey? Or just a supporter?
I'll leave the edit request for more experience editors. Darth Flappy «Talk» 02:35, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm a supporter. Added tag to user page.
- Partially done. I've removed the passage about how if the Conservative Party had held a constituency seat he wouldn't have been elected. It's straightforwardly true, but due weight isn't established by any reliable source coverage. I've also removed the passage about edits to Slaughter's wikipedia page, because it's not very relevant to Bailey beyond having been done by a supporter. Amongst your other requested changes: a section titled "victim of racial abuse" wouldn't be encylopedic. Material covering racism against Bailey is included in the article in the relevant parts of the body, including the mayoral campaign. The word "Hinduphobia" is used as a synonym for "anti-Hindu" which the sourced article supports. There's sourcing in the body for other accusations.
- I agree that the article should include more about Bailey's policy platform, though this needs to be drawn from reliable source coverage of his policy platform. The paragraph you proposed doesn't include any references that refer to Bailey at all. I'll go through RS coverage of the election and update the mayoral campaign section appropriately.
- The article is meant to reflect reliable source coverage of Bailey. A news article about something Bailey has done that deserves critical isn't an "attack piece", it's an appropriate source that establishes due weight to cover a subject. The article would not be improved by more and longer quotes from Bailey, because it's an encyclopedia article. The intention is to summarise what reliable sources say about Bailey, not what he says about himself. Ralbegen (talk) 08:45, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Some sources for the page:
Tackling Crime: Bailey’s policy priority is tackling crime. He has promised to increase the size of London’s Metropolitan Police to 40,000 officers – an increase of around 9,000 officers – as well as re-open 38 police stations. Bailey pledges to introduce new ‘stop and scan’ technology that will use thermal imaging in knife crime hotspots. [1] [2] [3] [4]
Reversing Congestion charge increase: He has campaigned to reverse the Congestion Charge to £15, describing it as a ‘mistake’. 43,000 Londoners have signed his petition against the increase, and he has promised to reverse it if elected as Mayor.
Tackling Housing: Bailey has pledged to create a new ‘Housing for London’ organisation, a taxpayer-owned housebuilder controlled by the Mayor. It would establish at least 20 mayoral development corporations that would focus on developing sites already in public ownership to deliver a ‘Big Bang’ on housing. [7]
Opposing Heathrow: Bailey opposes the expansion of Heathrow Airport and has pledged to make every London bus electric by the end of his second term. [8] 77.100.149.95 (talk) 19:24, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/shaun-bailey-london-police-vow-knife-crime-a4374406.html
- ^ https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/shaun-bailey-police-stations-london-a4364631.html
- ^ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9120548/police-in-lawless-london-should-use-new-hi-tech-cameras-to-scan-yobs-for-knives-and-slash-crime-sadiq-khans-tory-challenger-says/
- ^ https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020-02-28/shaun-bailey-vows-to-increase-police-officers-to-40-000-paid-for-by-hotel-tax-if-elected-as-london-mayor/
- ^ https://www.cityam.com/londoners-back-bailey-pledge-to-reverse-congestion-charge/
- ^ https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/ccharge-hike-to-15-is-a-mistake-tory-mayoral-hopeful-tells-sadiq-khan-a4445716.html
- ^ https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tory-mayoral-hopeful-shaun-bailey-proposes-new-organisation-to-deliver-big-bang-on-housing-a4192046.html
- ^ https://www.cityam.com/shaun-bailey-pledges-to-make-every-red-bus-electric-if-he-becomes-london-mayor/
Removing sentence on Labour councillor
editHi everyone, I've removed a sentence from the mayoral election section about a Labour councillor defecting to the Conservatives and supporting Bailey's campaign, because I don't think this is relevant on a page about Bailey as a person, it may be useful elsewhere (possibly the actual election article?) but I don't think here. Also, as the councillor doesn't have their own article, I don't think this is notable enough of an event to be included - DUE/UNDUE issues. If people disagree, please revert/discuss here obviously. Thanks. Seagull123 Φ 19:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Requested move 8 July 2021
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Adumbrativus (talk) 02:15, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Shaun Bailey (AM) → Shaun Bailey (London politician) – The abbreviation AM
in the title is not common and familiar for most people enough to be used as disambiguation. Northern Moonlight | ほっこう 21:41, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
- Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:50, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- Support, per nom. Mattythewhite (talk) 00:25, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Lockdown party
editIt would be interesting to have further input on this. Seeing as it has become a career-defining moment for Bailey, should it have its own section? At the moment, it is in the "other" section for his political career. Yellowmellow45 (talk) 22:54, 14 December 2021 (UTC)