Talk:Shayetet 13/Archive 1

Archive 1

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 May 2023

Equivalent to America's NSWDG(DEVGRU) not the regular seal teams 2A00:23C5:348D:4301:E5AA:8B8B:22C8:650 (talk) 23:18, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The Guardian source in the article is an independent secondary source that makes this comparison. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:29, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022

Shayetet 13 is the equivalent of DEVGRU and the British Special Boat Service, not the regular SEAL teams. They are the equivalent of an israeli tier 1 unit. 31.49.112.54 (talk) 17:16, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:55, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 August 2022

the word casualties should be changed since either they were dead OR slightly injured. They can’t be both. This should be changed. Doctorluv! (talk) 17:42, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:48, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 April 2018

Jinbo4514 (talk) 12:19, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

add Category:Counter-terrorist organizations on the page, please. (Since the unit itself is kind of counter-terrorist unit, after all) -Jinbo4514 (talk) 12:20, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done L293D (☎ • ✎) 21:59, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2017

I ask someone to please revert this edit since that image is duplicated in this section--181.92.193.214 (talk) 03:43, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 Done AdA&D 00:06, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 January 2017

There's a typo in the info box to the right at the beginning of the article. Under the the list of "engagements" of Shatetet 13, "War of Attrition" is listed twice. Zwifree (talk) 01:23, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Done st170e 01:37, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Also Operation Full Disclosure should be before Protective Edge, per chronological order--186.138.98.127 (talk) 01:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Done I've performed this now. Thanks very much for your contribution! If you have another request, make sure to reactivate this template. All the best, st170e 01:43, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

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Peacock and empty quote reversal in lead

I removed some text from the intro with motivation [1]. The es: Undid revision 516583538 by VoRo1ze (talk) sock edit. rm peacock (especially hard to prove since its work is secret, as stated), rm pass through quote - is not content). Jethro B reinstalled it [2] with es: sigh again, yes was a sock, but it was a revert of blanking referenced content without explanation. This is referenced factual info, removed originally w/o explanation. Jethro B does not reply to my arguments. I motivated the removal explicitly. That motivation is independent of earlier edits: it is about the actual content. I noted why it should not be here, full stop. The fact Jethro B mentions that it was removed earlier "without explanation" is not relevant, and is not a quality reference. Must say the "sigh" disapproval shows a wrong attitude. So I repeat my arguments: a peacock (about a secret organisation) and a non-quote (the source only writes the statement, not mentioning any substance for the claim): both sentences should be out. -DePiep (talk) 15:58, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but The Guardian newspaper is considered a reliable source. And it's not precisely "pro-Israel", does it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.49.237.96 (talk) 21:59, 10 October 2012 (UTC) Strike a sock. -DePiep (talk) 23:22, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

The Guardian writes explicitly:

Flotilla 13 is often compared to the US Navy Seals and Britain's Special Boat Service.

I don't see anything "peacock" about this referenced information. Here's another ref that says it's often compared to England's Special Boat Service. It's no surprise they're often ranked on sites as among the top ten military units. You may not know all of their info, but what you do know is obviously more than enough to give it its elite stature. --Jethro B 22:47, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

YALTAM and Underwater

yaltam is a separeted unit and isn't a part of shayetet 13. yaltam is a unit specialized in underwater general maintance, bomb disarming and such things(defensive diving). underwater unit in shayetet specialize in underwater sabotage, takeovers etc. (offensive diving) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.116.70.5 (talk) 12:02, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Removed! Yosy (talk) 20:36, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Operation Blanket?

Perhaps this needs to be added to the article? see page 72: Strategic Intelligence, Volume 1 By Loch K. Johnson and From Syria with love --Goldsztajn (talk) 11:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

respected as among the best of the world’s special forces

A reliable source has described it as such. why does it not belong in the lead? And eveen if no tin the lead, why remove it, rather than adding it to the article somewhere else? Tzu Zha Men (talk) 18:59, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if a reliable source has described it as such. "Being respected among the best of the world's special forces" is a subjective attribution. Please see WP:PEACOCK for more info. --386-DX (talk) 19:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Looking at a comparable article, Special Air Service, the lead says "they gained fame and recognition worldwide" - how is this artilce different? Tzu Zha Men (talk) 19:04, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, good point. I guess you could say "Madonna is one of the most famous singers in the world", which would be an objective claim supportable by facts, but saying that "Madonna is one of the most appreciated singers in the world" would be a matter of opinion. I'm not really sure though. --386-DX (talk) 19:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Gaining fame and recoqnition is not the same as being compared to one of the best in the world. Mo ainm~Talk 13:52, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

In terms of using a subjective evaluation to describe an organization, how are the two different? Tzu Zha Men (talk) 06:36, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

386-DX I fail to see how any of what you wrote here made it right to take it out of the lead, which specifically stated "respcted as" and sourced with RS.WP:PEACOCK does not apply here. It is also compared with British special boat service and American neavy seals [3]. Going to restore. --Gilisa (talk) 10:40, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

386-DX, I strongly recomend you read "just the facts" section here [4]. The lead do include just the facts. Hence, WP:Peacock is not applicable here. --Gilisa (talk) 10:54, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

The Shayetet Moto

According to the official web site of the Israeli navy [5] the Shayetet moto is:

"Like a bat appearing in the dark, as a knife that cuts in silence, like a grande exploding with a roar"

The source also provide further information on the basic training course in this unit. --Gilisa (talk) 13:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Pro Palestinian activists vs. People

Those who were killed by the Shayetet soldiers were identified by Israel and IDF as related to radical Islamic groups, they were all been paid for their violent participation in the foltilla. According to Israeli and many American sources, all of the activists who were killed were involved in violance and in attacking the soldiers, putting their life at risk. It should be mentioned here as well, they were not just people. --Gilisa (talk) 13:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually the IDF here said "attacked by Mavi Marmara passengers" and "9 flotilla participants were killed" (my bolding). It seems the IDF are quite neutral. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

More News about Humanitarian Aid Flotilla Operation

No doubt after these news. They were S'13. http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-navy-commandos-gaza-flotilla-activists-tried-to-lynch-us-1.293089 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.51.41.198 (talk) 12:23, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} Due to the current media coverage and the controversy of the Gaza flotilla raid, this page has been vandalized numerous times especially by unregistered users. Therefore I request semi-protection for the Shayetet 13 article.

Not done: requests for changes to the page protection level should be made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Jeffrey Mall (talk • contribs) - 12:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Attack on the Freedom Flotilla

It's suspected that S'13 was the special forces unit used in the boarding of the freedom flotilla on may 31. Killing between 10-16 peaceactivists travelling to Gaza with humanitarian aid, and activists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johanmw (talk • contribs) 08:03, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

This revert is not appropriate. Of course it is relevant to know the consequences of an operation. The wikilinks is put back. --Kslotte (talk) 15:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Characterization

When special forces units engage in sabotage / search and destroy its normally termed "Direct Action." Is there a reason the term "assassination" is being used instead? Or is it politically motivated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.186.46.82 (talk) 22:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:S-13 tzur01.jpg

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Yom Kippur war and other missing information

This is a poor article about Shayetet 13 that makes it look like they did nothing but have their people killed off. In fact, some of their best achievements were in the Yom Kippur war, that doesn't seem to be mentioned at all. Likewise, the sinking of Arafat's "refugee ship" in Cyprus (1988) is probably theirs too. 1979-1981 the unit did 22 raids in Lebanon and got a unit medal. It's all in the Hebrew version of the Wikipedia article - or most of it. Also look up operation Escort... This unit was also involved in killing Abu Jihad in Tunis.

Prior to formal foundation as an IDF unit, Yochai Bin Nun and Yossele Dror had some interesting action, sinking the Amir al Farouq in the 1948 war (Bin Nun) and sinking the arms ship Lino in Bari Harbor (Bin Nun).[[[User:Mewnews|Mewnews]] (talk) 22:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)]

Image

Is this image really better than the previous one? Nudve (talk) 06:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

This image isn't the Shayetet's normal Insignia, the normal one is in Silver, not gold.

Why not get the public domain image from the IN official page or use this one from Wikipedia Hebrew? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/e/e7/%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%9B%D7%AA_%D7%9C%D7%95%D7%97%D7%9D_%D7%91%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%99%D7%98%D7%AA_13.gif

Problem with this article is the article, not the image. [[[User:Mewnews|Mewnews]] (talk) 22:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)}

Suspicions

Why was this so long without an article? Sounds suspicious :) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:46, 23 November 2007 (UTC)