Talk:Sheepdog trial

External links modified

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I have just modified one external link on Sheepdog trial. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080509120835/http://www.fairhillscottishgames.org/about/sheepdogs.html to http://www.fairhillscottishgames.org/about/sheepdogs.html

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Extension

Started extending the article due to it's lack of sources and limited view on the subject. Would appreciate help from users with knowledge of sources in other languages on traditional style herding.--LoraxJr 06:36, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

External links (deletion)

The external links section has just been deleted (by Justlettersandnumbers with the quite reasonable explanation that it had become a link-farm, and "why are they here?". I almost put them back, with the answer "because they're interesting to our readers, and help them find resources about sheepdog trials". But I haven't, because actually the links were either to sheepdog breeding (rather than sheepdog trials), or to organisations running sheepdog trials, who are obviously in the business of selling tickets (so it all got rather commercial). I do think that a link or two would be helpful; I'm tempted to replace the YouTube video[1] as a visual image of a sheepdog trial, analogous to the pictures we put in articles about static subjects (a trial involves movement, so a video makes more sense). What's the general feeling? The rest of the external links, I'm inclined to agree with @Justlettersandnumbers' deletion! Elemimele (talk) 18:25, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Elemimele! I've removed hundreds, maybe thousands, of external links with that same rationale. I based it on the lead section here. To save people going to look, the links I removed were these:

• {{curlie|/Recreation/Pets/Dogs/Activities/Herding/|Herding}}
• Meeker Classic Sheepdog website
• Meeker Classic Sheepdog Championship Trials (YouTube Video), April 2014; 18 minutes
• Soldier Hollow Classic website
• Website of the International Sheepdog Society
• Website of the United States Border Collies Handlers' Association

I don't see that any of them adds anything of any great value to the page, but I'm open to correction on that. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:41, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

No, I thought the links were perfectly fine to have there. So what if tickets are sold to these events? The information is useful to readers. I would like to see the links put back. MathPerson (talk) 18:46, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm not in favour of putting back the links to specific trials selling tickets, on the grounds that (1) WP isn't a commercial directory; and (2) if we do it for one, we must in fairness do it for all. I'm only in favour of putting back links to major international and national societies overseeing the activity, and/or one/two illustrative videos showing what a trial actually is. I toyed with the idea of including the YouTube video and the International Sheepdog society, but in the end wasn't sure about the society because trials was only a smallish bit of their site, and emphasised their own trials. They do have a clickable link to what's supposed to be a 'full list of trials', but it actually links to precisely the same page, giving only their trials. So they let me down! At the moment, the video is the only thing I personally would like to include, but I'm open to suggestions. Elemimele (talk) 19:29, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Almost every commercial entity you have ever heard of is on Wikipedia, with links to their websites, and so on. Sure, most (especially the big-name) sheepdog trials charge money for tickets. So do the Cincinnati Reds, and all of Major League Baseball! Yet they are on Wikipedia! The criterion should not be, "do they charge for tickets", but rather, "is the particular trial, or the organization (like USBCHA)" relevant or important? (At the moment, the international sheepdog society, and one in South Africa, are listed, but not USBCHA in the U.S.) The only thing this deletion has accomplished is to make the page less interesting and less useful to readers. MathPerson (talk) 22:14, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Incidentally, The Meeker Classic is a 501c(3), not a "commercial" organization. MathPerson (talk) 00:21, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Six External links were deleted last month without prior discussion. As a compromise, I suggest that the following three links should be put back. These organizations are non-profit. Measured by either attendance or amount of prize money, the Meeker trial is one of the main sheepdog trials in the U.S. The two sheepdog organizations are absolutely relevant to sheepdog trials in the U.S. and in the U.K. MathPerson (talk) 23:56, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

*Meeker Classic Sheepdog website

*Website of the International Sheepdog Society

*Website of the United States Border Collies Handlers' Association

Having asked, and having seen no objection, I put back these three external links. MathPerson (talk) 06:13, 10 September 2021 (UTC)